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A UK Disease -great engineering but poor investment

6K views 22 replies 13 participants last post by  arne 
#1 ·
Dear JLR,
I have owned my I Pace for over six months now.The design and engineering is fantastic and in 2018 was way ahead of your competitors. Now three years later VW/Audi have at least six different models that use similar technology but have moved it on with higher voltages giving faster charging. Look at the Audi E-tron range three separate models offering fastback , coupes as well as an SUV all with different propulsion options and they have used the same technology for the Porsche Taycan !
The I Pace 21 update was a chrome grill and a different Sat-nav taken from the LR range which has dubious advantages over the previous one i.e an "accountants special" update at minimal costs. The irony is the I Pace is still a far better car but lack of investment in a successful model makes it lose its market position . It is barely in the "top-ten EV ratings" any more. You have failed to invest in a brilliant design as usual in the UK.
It needs high voltage charging, a performance version ( with boost as per Audi) , a coupé version as well as a minor restyle to keep it fresh and it needs it now.
Yes it costs money, but this is the future of motoring and it will pay back big time!
 
#2 ·
Having spent a stupid amount of money on my i-Pace, I can't really wait to get rid of it. Nothing wrong with the car as such, but I prefer sports coupés and can't help feeling how behind the curve it is already. With little-to-no mindshare in the EV market, I fear for the i-Pace's residuals, but given how well second-hand car sales are doing, I wonder if it's worth taking an early bath and cashing in while the going is good. Problem is, what to replace it with...
 
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#3 ·
The problems at JLR are mainly dealer related, the dealers I have experience have soured my experience of the brand and made me unwilling to buy another JLR car (and a RR was going to be my additional car purchase). I have no real issue with the car, its great to drive, well specced and without horrid plastic seating which seems to be a key feature of much of the similarly priced and more expensive competition.

The charging speed for the vast, vast majority of drivers is an irrelevance, sure it would be nice to have but the number of chargers genuinely capable of delivering really high voltage charge is still pretty small nationally and insufficient to make faster charging a real rather than brochure benefit. Of far more use to the average driver would be to cut back the aggressive charging throttling on high speed chargers without changing any of the existing hardware. I tend to find that on 50Kwh chargers (which are the vast majority of available fast chargers) I pretty reliably get 50Kwh charging throughout the charge cycle and at the very least to over 80% SoC. Catering for a handful of high voltage chargers will not change the cars charging behaviour for the vast majority of drivers.

I think a few people here are confusing what they want with what the market really wants (not just what inexperienced EV drivers think they want).

Coming from a succession of owned from new very high performance sports coupes, nothing beyond the poor dealer network makes me want to switch back. The car behaves like a sports coupe when I want it to and an SUV when I want it to too. I wouldn't buy another because the dealers are the worst of any brand I have experienced in over 30 years of driving but the car itself is pretty bang on the money I think for the vast majority of potential owners whether they realise what is valuable versus illusory or not.

As for the top ten EV's what I find laughable is the range comparison and assumed Kwh per mile they typically bandy about, which is far removed from my experience of the car. I haven't driven say the Kia's or Hyundai's which are often said to have more range but I fail to see how they willsignificantly top 210-220 miles per charge winter and circa 250 Miles per charge summer and I rarely baby the car. The motoring press broadly really does not seem to get EV comparisons or if it does it is quite incompetent at making them.
 
#4 ·
Dear JLR,
I have owned my I Pace for over six months now.The design and engineering is fantastic and in 2018 was way ahead of your competitors. Now three years later VW/Audi have at least six different models that use similar technology but have moved it on with higher voltages giving faster charging. Look at the Audi E-tron range three separate models offering fastback , coupes as well as an SUV all with different propulsion options and they have used the same technology for the Porsche Taycan !
The I Pace 21 update was a chrome grill and a different Sat-nav taken from the LR range which has dubious advantages over the previous one i.e an "accountants special" update at minimal costs. The irony is the I Pace is still a far better car but lack of investment in a successful model makes it lose its market position . It is barely in the "top-ten EV ratings" any more. You have failed to invest in a brilliant design as usual in the UK.
It needs high voltage charging, a performance version ( with boost as per Audi) , a coupé version as well as a minor restyle to keep it fresh and it needs it now.
Yes it costs money, but this is the future of motoring and it will pay back big time!
As far as I understand it, only Porche, Hyundai and Kia have implemented a higher voltage battery system(800 Volt). The E-tron has a much flatter charging curve than the I-Pace reliably delivering 150 kW charging up to very high levels of SoC with a very similar LG battery module. Which seems to indicate that the I-Pace could charge faster with some improvements to heat management. Although most of my charging is done at home (presently about 70%) the charging speed is certainly a significant factor when choosing the next EV. The I-Pace has never delivered the 20-80% SoC charging in 40 minutes outlined in the specs, even in optimum summer conditions. Typically, it takes about 25% longer than promised in summer and in winter it is, to put it mildly, very modest.
The performance vis a vis efficiency is acceptable.
The MY21 I-Pace included better AC charging performance from 7 kW (single phase) to 11 kW (3 phase) and this sealed the deal for me on the initial lease. Single phase supply from domestic systems here in Germany would only deliver around 3.8 kW (around 7 kW with asymmetric loading not liked by the energy providers), which would be painfully slow. As yet this seems to have been the only significant improvement (drivetrain/charging) to the I-Pace since 2018. Unfortunately, JLR seems awfully quiet about any further development of the car which is really a pity.
 
#5 ·
If you prefer “sports coupes” why buy an IPace SUV ?.

in my opinion the IPace design is as good as anything built in Europe, possibly excepting the Taycan, Nothing BMW, Mercedes, Audi or others have any significant advantage, some can under ideal conditions charge faster, most/all have a lower range.

If they have a good one owners are well satisfied but the brand weakness is service and reliability, this is exactly the same with the ICE lineup, JLR are right at the bottom of the reliability tables. Covid restricting parts availability makes it worse, although other brands are suffering the same problems.

JLRs problem is the same as it’s always been, good ideas, lousy execution of the intended plan and poor quality control all the way through, even in the days of the E Type, and MK 10 build quality and service was a problem, nothing much ever changes whoever owns the company.
Underinvestment has always been a problem but strategy has been wrong, other brands have modified existing platforms to accept EV drivetrain if JLR had done that they would have 4
or 5 different models, now!. Where they are going to find the capital to complete the new investment plans I have no idea
 
#6 ·
If you prefer “sports coupes” why buy an IPace SUV ?.
Fancied a change, wanted to go EV for the benefit of the planet, and was impressed with the car. But it's a bit of a barge (already bumped the damn thing trying park in a typically undersized car parking space) and just prefer the lower driving position of previous cars (plus high-speed stability). So when someone makes a smart, fast, two door coupé EV, they can have my money. But it probably won't be another Jag.
 
#10 ·
I COULD NOT AGREE MORE !!!

Have had my I-Pace for two years now and it has been a fantastic car and I still enjoy driving the car.
Apart for ONE issue (which is being solved in about two days), the car has been perfect and is a joy to drive.

But the competition has not been idle. VAG has introduced a range of EV's and so have many other brands. Many of those are using newer technology. Much of which, IMHO, could AND SHOULD be implemented in the I-Pace as quickly as possible if JLR wants to maintain at least a bit of credibility.

I am only rarely using fast charging, but it definately is a point ANY potention EV buyer will compare his shortlist on. And in that respect, the I-Pace is falling behind rapidly. Even a cheap car like an ID3 can charge just as fast or faster than the I-Pace. And this is consdered to be a high-end car?
I understand the UK charging infrastructure lags behind and is mainly made up of 50 kW chargers. Well, not so in the rest of Europ, where 175 or even 350 kW are installing at a rapid rate. Is is then surprising that even a mediocre EV like the Audi eTron (but with a faster charging rate) is outselling the I-Pace in just about every country?

So, PLEASE, JLR, surprise the world again and and show that you can be competitive!
But also, please hurry a bit. The I-Pace is my first Jaguar and I would not hesitate to get another one provide the next generation would be up to date in features. So, again, make that happen.
 
#12 ·
Sorry that wouldn't work. But I would like Type 2 ports on both side or front and back.
 
#13 ·
I'm happy with the car I have now and I have little time thinking about "how far JLR are starting to fall behind" because I'm happy with the car I have now. I typed out that twice for a reason..

Look, if JLR don't come up with the goods for the next big thing then buy from a different marque, what they have at the moment is still an absolute superstar of an EV despite newer competition.

They're a smaller manufacturer so no doubt they will end up sharing some other platform as a best case scenario, it's what JLR do with it that counts.
 
#14 ·
I think a lot of people posting here, are making the assumption that all these other EVs have massively surpassed the I-Pace. Or that it is so far behind the curve it will never catch up. I can say after testing many types of cars over the past 6 months that both of these assumptions are wrong.

From July 2021 until Jan 2022 I test drove the following SUV/Crossover style EVs.

VW ID.4
Sokda Enyaq
Audi Q4
E-Tron 55 Sportback
Mach-E AWD LR
Ioniq 5
iX3
Tesla Model 3 (as a Model Y proxy)
Kia EV6
I-Pace

Most of these EVs have their strengths and weaknesses and I initially chose the Q4 50 Sportback but events and delivery times conspired against me. So I ended up with the I-Pace Black and not because it was some sort of consolation 2nd place but because it is a genuine contender. I can categorically say that it very much does still stand up well against every EV I listed above and does trade blows even 3 years after release.

Rapid charging speeds: If you are a frequent 200+ mile long distance driver then rapid charging matters of course. Though if you are like the majority of EV drivers who charge at home and only do long distance trips a few times a year, then this is not as big a problem as people make out. Realistically the I-Pace will take from 10 - 30 minutes longer to add about 150 miles of range at a rapid. Frankly when most people are stopping to charge, they are doing so with a proper 30+ minute break in mind. So charging speed is a nice to have but does it matter the car finishes 20 minutes or 20 seconds before you are actually ready to go?

Efficiency: If you mainly charge from home then this is only a problem if you are more interested in petty willy waving. If you are worrying about how much a kW of electricity costs then you should not be considering an expensive EV in the first place. Sorry to be so blunt here.

Performance: Only the Model Y Performance beats the I-Pace here and that is only in a straight line. The rest are slightly, or massively slower.

Interior quality: Well this is where the I-Pace wins hands down against all but the iX3. The interior of the I-Pace feels very premium compared to most of the others I tested. I am not talking about how it looks, just the quality of materials

Build quality: The I-Pace does have some minor build quality issues but it is still better than most of the others in this area.

Looks: This is purely subjective but the I-Pace still looks modern and fresh compared to many of the others listed. Interior again is maybe a tad more dated in some people's opinions but compared to the competition above if is certainly not being soundly beaten and I would argue it looks better than most IMHO.

Price: If you are buying privately I can see how the I-Pace is clearly not the value proposition. Though for salary sacrifice leasing the I-Pace was actually one of the cheaper picks. Only the Korean cars were cheaper on a monthly lease. Note: I am specifically focusing on pricing of AWD almost fully specced and larger battery versions of these cars where applicable.

Range: Apart from the E-Tron 55 Sportback, this is where the other cars have minor to reasonable victories. Obviously this ties in with the efficiency above but overall each of these cars is in the 230 - 270 miles of summer range and about 180 - 200 winter (when sensibly driven). So it is hardly a major difference between all the cars listed above. I would describe it as more than good enough for most people's needs.

Sorry for the long post folks, but I just wanted to address the erroneous claims that the I-Pace is far behind the curve compared to the newer competition. The reality is the I-Pace simply has more competition (a good thing) but it can and does stack up very well in comparison.
 
#23 ·
...but I just wanted to address the erroneous claims that the I-Pace is far behind the curve compared to the newer competition. The reality is the I-Pace simply has more competition (a good thing) but it can and does stack up very well in comparison.
But most of these cars are significantly cheaper, add that to JRL doing NOTHING sales-wise after the initial fuzz in 2018-2019, and it's obvious that nobody will buy them.

My major complaint is related to the absolutely lousy software and slow charging, other than that I love the car.
 
#16 ·
We would if we were content with an EV that is the equivalent of a Mondeo. I’m sure that suits many but it isn’t the quality and style of many premium brands including the IPace
 
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#18 ·
"He loved it and said it was perfect." this seems to be the consensus between Tesla drivers. They love their car despite the poor build quality.

anyhow. I do read other EV forums and I see other brands have the exact same issues as the iPace. That justified for me the reason to go for a Jaguar ipace.
And it's an awesome car !
 
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