That's comforting to know. With only 4000 miles on mine I should hopefully still have 99% capacity left. It also means Jaguar are probably safe from any battery capacity warranty claims until well over 100,000 miles.

The extra 2% I possibly have over yours didn't get me anywhere near your 300 mile range though. I managed my 244 mile trip yesterday using 94% (of whatever is actually in the battery), so a carefully driven range of about 260 miles.

I'm more than happy with that though - especially if I'm only likely to lose a couple of percent per year.

How did you get a battery health check? Is it something the dealer will do on request?

 

But we know Chewy has extra special batteries fitted, how else can he get up to 50% more range than the rest of us? :mrgreen:

 

How did you get a battery health check? Is it something the dealer will do on request?

As the battery degradation is a subject of the warranty, and Jaguar has provided no way for the owner to check it (don't recall my Tesla offering anything either), I asked my dealer if they would do it as I have done nearly 15% of the warrantied mileage of 100,000 miles. I had already asked Jaguar and they said if I had any concerns I should contact the dealer and ask them to carry out a check. They have some good guys in Cheltenham and covered the cost themselves, though I don't think it should be a cost item for at least once a year or every 15 to 20% of the warranty range - else how do we know we have a problem.

I left the car with the dealer this morning and they returned it with a full battery state-of-health printout about 2 hours later.

 

The extra 2% I possibly have over yours didn't get me anywhere near your 300 mile range though. I managed my 244 mile trip yesterday using 94% (of whatever is actually in the battery), so a carefully driven range of about 260 miles.

260 miles is highly commended, especially as you achieved an actual driven 244 miles and still had plenty in reserve. This is easily as much as your typical Tesla MS driver would achieve (unless they had the 100 kWh battery) - waiting for a certain Tesla owner to reply :mrgreen:

 

Very reassuring Chewy. Do you regularly charge to 100%, and how often do you use rapid chargers? Just wondering if maintaining that level of battery health depends on being especially careful with it?

 

Hmmm. losing 3% after 60 cycles, Is that just an initial loss or will that degradation continue. That to me seems a lot for few little cycles.

 

Hmmm. losing 3% after 60 cycles, Is that just an initial loss or will that degradation continue. That to me seems a lot for few little cycles.

100,000 miles at around 230 miles per charge cycle gives 434 cycles. The degradation will not continue at that rate. For a new battery it will tend to get to 10% relatively quickly, then degradation rate will taper out. This of course depends upon having a good state-of-the-art BMS, which the I-Pace has.

Even if it continued at it's current rate that would result in only 20% degradation after 100,000 miles. I suspect it will be nothing like that though.

 

Very reassuring Chewy. Do you regularly charge to 100%, and how often do you use rapid chargers? Just wondering if maintaining that level of battery health depends on being especially careful with it?

It is Jaguar's decision that, if plugged in, the battery will always charge to 100% SoC. As such, yes I always charge to 100% SoC. I plug in every opportunity so my battery level is always 100% in the morning when I start off. You never know what the next day will bring so I ensure it is charged. I used to use the battery pre conditioning, but since the App has become so inconsistent I don't bother anymore.

Rapid Charging - very rarely. Almost all my charging has been at 7kW. I did try out two or three chargers when I first got the car to ensure it worked. I have only really done 3 or 4 Rapid Charges when I needed to. That 300 mile range does it for me

 

Was looking at these. Graphs on battery degradation. I can see that 3% after 14k may not be that bad and it should tail off. Certainly it seems that Tesla batteries seem to have an init drop then slow degradation after that.

https://electrek.co/2018/04/14/tesla-battery-degradation-data/#jp-carousel-65298

 

I think it's a bit early to reason about 3% after 14 K. There might also be individual differences between batteries in terms of initial capacity when new.
I don't think we will see 10% capacity loss until 4-6 years down the rode unless we drive a lot or let the car routinely stay at 100% charge level. Putting the car at that level will definitely increase degradation. Even Jaguar admits that when they advice how the battery should be kept during prolonged parking.

Actually I think that is the only parameter we can control beside putting mile on the car. Do not let the car sit idle at 100% more than absolutely necessary.

 

Do not let the car sit idle at 100% more than absolutely necessary.

Excellent advice that everyone should pay attention to.

 

Do not let the car sit idle at 100% more than absolutely necessary.

Excellent advice that everyone should pay attention to.

Well, when I see the car, I feel compelled to drive it anyway. So nope, SoC won't be at 100%

 

So after 7 months and 14,000 miles ... I have only lost ... 3%

I think that is par for the course and to be expected on any 90-ish kWh EV with a decent BMS. Is there likely to be much battery variability car-to-car though? Bjorn did ponder that, as he had had different Range from different cars (back in the early days after iPace launch)

I was expecting around 6% with the mileage I have done, rising to 10% at 20k miles then flattening out.

I would have been disappointed if it was that high (based on my personal experience, which is of course only sample-size-of-one, but also the Tesla chatter about Airport Taxis which abused the battery, frequently rapid charged, left them sat at 100% for prolonged periods, but still only got 7%-ish degradation at 100-200,000 miles)

So personally I think it is worth having a relatively high expectation (even if manufacturer warranty is CYA)

260 miles is highly commended, especially as you achieved an actual driven 244 miles and still had plenty in reserve. This is easily as much as your typical Tesla MS driver would achieve (unless they had the 100 kWh battery) - waiting for a certain Tesla owner to reply :mrgreen:

You rang :?:

Mine is a 90 battery, 80,000 miles in, and I plan trips on the basis of 240 miles at 75-80 on motorway, and that is inclusive of about 6-7% degradation to date. Reality is that I hit traffic, / roadworks, in which case I get somewhat more range than that. The Tesla 90 battery chemistry seems to be considered less robust than the 100, so mine is probably "not brill", so the iPace 90kWh battery might well be "better chemistry".

50% of my degradation was in the first 20K-ish

Do you regularly charge to 100%, and how often do you use rapid chargers? Just wondering if maintaining that level of battery health depends on being especially careful with it?

I'm speaking of Tesla of course, but IMHO both share a good BMS, so my expectation would be that iPace will be at least as good as Tesla. Tesla say "Plug in when not driving it" - so in effect keep it charged up - and charge to 100% when making a trip, 90% other times. The 100% option doesn't exist on iPace, and my understanding is that iPace has top-end reserve, so in effect you only ever charge to 90%-ish - so more cautious than Tesla

I have rapid charged 10%-ish of my total miles, and for me that is 120kW rather than (as I understand it) no more than 70kW max for iPace at present.

Of course until iPace has been around a couple of years and data is in from high mileage vehicles we can't really know, but I just don't think there is likely to be anything to worry about - particularly as Chewy's data at 14K miles seems to be "as expected"

My self-imposed rules are:

if charging to 100% try to do that to finish" Shortly before departure" but "Don't sweat it if departure is then delayed an hour or two". But I would burn off 5% if the trip was cancelled (cabin heater on MAX or drive some miles). But as iPace doesn't charge to real 100% that's not an issue.

If return home < 20% then put on charge immediately (i.e. don't wait for overnight schedule charge for Off Peak rate) i.e. avoid leaving sat at low SOC for long periods

If driving below 20% be thoughtful about using WOT, and don't do that at all below 10% (but that works for me ... if I am <10% I'm driving like a snail to make sure I get there! so no hardship in that rule)

 

^WOT?

 

^WOT?

Wide Open Throttle

 

You rang :?:

I did sir. Thanks for your very detailed responses.

 

I left the car with the dealer this morning and they returned it with a full battery state-of-health printout about 2 hours later.

Could you share what the printout looks like? Thanks

 

Thanks for the great info Chewy and TeslaDriver. Will be a while till I get to 14k but will get mine checked at next dealer visit. I do use rapid charging frequently (though only 50kw so far, should try MK Ionity on Sunday) so might give a view of that impact. I'll be continuing to do so too (long distance relationship, no dedicated home charging space, customers etc).

Sage advice on the charging too. 90% (or perhaps 94% on the ipace) seems a valid target for frequent charging if you have any variance in your routine (I do!). Charging to 70 or 80%, you've manually created more capacity loss than you are ever likely to see chemically.....

 

Here is a health check I've received for my car. If i'm reading it correctly it would indicate some cells have lost 17% capacity?

https://www.docdroid.net/0Dhi79e/untitled-03072019-123150.pdf

 

I do use rapid charging frequently (though only 50kw so far, should try MK Ionity on Sunday) so might give a view of that impact. I'll be continuing to do so too (long distance relationship, no dedicated home charging space, customers etc).

As best as I understand it [information a bit scant, or I just haven't encountered it] Tesla does throttle Rapid charging after some number of DC charges (possibly iPace does the same). Information probably exists, but this just based on what I have read, and that relates to the 90kWh Tesla battery chemistry, rather than the newer, better, 100kWh battery and given that iPace launch was after Tesla 100kWh battery then iPace may well have at-least-as-good chemistry.

Tesla throttles charge rate , on DC, after about 2,500 kWh of rapid D/C charging. The reduction is tiny, but ramps up thereafter and levels off at something like 15,000 kWh. I think the max throttling is about 10%, and once above 60% or so SOC tapering would reduce to under the throttling level anyway. So its not going to add a lot to overall charging-stop time

Given that you are charging below 100kW anyway (at present) then it seems that that would be below Tesla's throttling anyway ... so apart from the fact that (again, "for Tesla") all DC charges would count towards throttling, the amount of throttling seems to be quite small in practice and would be non existent if the Stall was < 100kW, and that also suggests to me that < 100kW charging is not going to trouble the battery anyway/much.

None of that may have any relevance to IPace of course ... but is perhaps an indicator for setting expectation, and at what level you might choose to actually worry about it I don't think anyone in the Tesla community is giving it a second thought ...

 

Here is a health check I've received for my car. If i'm reading it correctly it would indicate some cells have lost 17% capacity?

https://www.docdroid.net/0Dhi79e/untitled-03072019-123150.pdf

That doesn't read well :-(

The imbalance is also worrying.

I will dig mine out and post it up.

 

Here is mine....

 

Here is mine....

Right your's looks like I was expecting. Jaguar have given my car the all clear and want me to take it back but I'm not too impressed. I bought the car used and have only done a few hundred miles, seeing the range drop as fast as it does feels like I've been sold a lemon.

 

I would think around 97% is where the cells ideally should be when the battery i is fully charged. I would guess 100% is the nominal max cell voltage which we never should see with a working BMS. There is most likely around 3% upper buffer. The remaining 2% would be at the bottom.

 

My self-imposed rules are:

if charging to 100% try to do that to finish" Shortly before departure" but "Don't sweat it if departure is then delayed an hour or two". But I would burn off 5% if the trip was cancelled (cabin heater on MAX or drive some miles). But as iPace doesn't charge to real 100% that's not an issue.

If return home < 20% then put on charge immediately (i.e. don't wait for overnight schedule charge for Off Peak rate) i.e. avoid leaving sat at low SOC for long periods

If driving below 20% be thoughtful about using WOT, and don't do that at all below 10% (but that works for me ... if I am <10% I'm driving like a snail to make sure I get there! so no hardship in that rule)

Why don't use WOT below 20%? Is there a range where the battery is "happiest" with quicker discharge rates?

And is it really bad leaving the car at 100% charge for a few hours or overnight? I thought the issue was more related to long-term storage?

I know I read that they tend to store lithium batteries at 40% charge and refrigerate them, as this help them maintain their charge longer?