[ZaphodBeeblebrox]

Four weeks after starting with OVO, it’s sent me an email to say the 7p Charge Anytime rate is going from 7 to 14p. It is also introducing some new plans that have a monthly fee. The plans are not right for me so effectively my charging costs are going to double! Coincidentally, I’ve just read in the papers that OVO has some financial challenges and is not alone. My guess is that charging rates are going to rise in the years ahead to the same cost as petrol. Wouldn’t that be a surprise!!

The financial challenges are not really solvency risk (amongst the major Octopus are in the same boat). It's the monumental amount Ofgem require set aside to cover potential SOLR costs in the event of supplier failures.

The sole thing thing this actually protects is customers credit balances (and in a hugely expensive way). Many other ways of protecting client funds in a regulated manner are available. And much cheaper. They even lumber suppliers who are pay on bill in the same way.

As to charging costs the bigger worry for me is that any fast charging is required to call home. That gives an ability to know exactly who used how much and when. That enables easy rationing and charging at a different rate to include a fuel duty type cost. I am not saying that happens any time soon, just that it would be very easy to implement.

 

[Big Dunc]

My Intelligent Go is 29.6 p off peak, although I never use it.
I to am concerned about possible electric fuel duty. It would be very easy to just tax all public charging (or all public charging faster than a certain speed) or just move to a black box based road pricing system.

 

[ZaphodBeeblebrox]

My Intelligent Go is 29.6 p off peak, although I never use it.
I to am concerned about possible electric fuel duty. It would be very easy to just tax all public charging (or all public charging faster than a certain speed) or just move to a black box based road pricing system.

Just for info the current charging regulations require a home smart charger to call home and provide details of charge delivered.

Pretty much any charge point is covered. It would enable the manufacturer to be charged or the meter owner to be charged.

I doubt anything will happen until EV take up is much higher but it's a risk with 24 bln in fuel duty.

(1) A relevant charge point must be configured so that on each occasion it is used, it measures or calculates—

(a)the electricity it has imported or exported (as the case may be), such measurement or calculation to be in watt-hours or kilowatt-hours; and

(b)the amount of time for which it is importing or exporting electricity.

(2) A relevant charge point must be configured in a way which enables the owner of the relevant charge point to view the information referred to in paragraph (1) by reference to—

(a)any occasion on which it was used to import or export electricity within the preceding 12 months;

(b)any month within the preceding 12 months;

(c)the entirety of the preceding 12 month period.

(3) A relevant charge point must be configured so that it is able—

(a)on each occasion it is used, to measure or calculate every one second the electrical power it has imported or exported (as the case may be), such measurement or calculation to be in watts or kilowatts; and

(b)to provide the information referred to in sub-paragraph (a) via a communications network.

(4) A relevant charge point must be configured so that—

(a)a figure measured or calculated in accordance with paragraph (1) or (3) above is accurate to within 10% of the actual figure; and

(b)any inaccuracies are not systematic. For the purposes of this regulation, an inaccuracy is systematic if, as a consequence of the design or manufacture of the

 

[Big Dunc]

Thanks. I was not aware of that. If they were to suddenly tax charging over other domestic use, would people revert to granny chargers? Obviously would not work for high milage users.

 

[ZaphodBeeblebrox]

Thanks. I was not aware of that. If they were to suddenly tax charging over other domestic use, would people revert to granny chargers? Obviously would not work for high milage users.

I am not totally certain what constitutes a relevant charge point (that's defined in other legislation, the automated and ev legislation); but predominantly it's about intent related to smart charging.

I wonder, for example, whether a 32a circuit and charger may be outside the regulations, even if controlled by a smart switch (ignoring any problems as to actually implementing that).

Also the regulations only apply for post 2022 sales and specifically mention new sales (so that ebay one is excluded).

But those would be details requiring amendment. At the moment the arguments are the data is wanted for grid planning etc. It does give a potential hook though.

 

[Big Dunc]

Of my two chargers, I prefer the older one as it doesn't have the random start delay and other stuff required for the 2022 regs. It won't last for ever though.

 

[hdasmith]

Jealous of your standing charges, @MacLeod and @Bob ipace!, Mine's at 57.16p/day! That's an extra £36 a year before I've used a Wh of electricity!

 

[AB-UK]

Hi Zaphod...
Could you identify the source of this info please?
We're looking into getting a new charger when we move, and I'd like to be able to have this info to hand when speaking with whoever we contact.

 

[OBC John]

My Eon Next Drive dual tarrif goes . . .
00.00-0.07 6.7p/kWh
0.07-00.00 24.4p/kWh
Standing daily charge 63.3p
Fixed for 2 years when I signed up in November last year.

 

[hdasmith]

@ZaphodBeeblebrox, while I understand your concern, I think grid management really is the issue they’re trying to solve. There are too many ways around charging to levy a tax. I think pay-per-mile is unavoidable at this point. How is another question.

 

[ZaphodBeeblebrox]

Hi Zaphod...
Could you identify the source of this info please?
We're looking into getting a new charger when we move, and I'd like to be able to have this info to hand when speaking with whoever we contact.

Which particular bit ?

The most relevant legislation is:-

The Electric Vehicles (Smart Charge Points) Regulations 2021

These Regulations are made using powers in the Automated and Electric Vehicles Act 2018 (c. 18). They prohibit certain types of electric vehicle charge point from being sold or offered for sale unless certain requirements set out in the Regulations are complied with.

www.legislation.gov.uk

And to a lesser extent defining some terms and scopes:-

Automated and Electric Vehicles Act 2018

An Act to make provision about automated vehicles and electric vehicles.

www.legislation.gov.uk

I have merely expressed a view that the government have access to a lot of data which could be used as the basis for differential pricing.

If it was some other thing let me know and I will pass on the source

 

[Steevh]

My Eon Next Drive dual tarrif goes . . .
00.00-0.07 6.7p/kWh
0.07-00.00 24.4p/kWh
Standing daily charge 63.3p
Fixed for 2 years when I signed up in November last year.

I think you get more than 7 minutes at 6.7p !! 😂😂

Same as me, I think you mean
00:00-07:00 @6.7p
07:00-00:00 @24.4p

Otherwise your deal is rubbish 😲😲😉

 

[ZaphodBeeblebrox]

@ZaphodBeeblebrox, while I understand your concern, I think grid management really is the issue they’re trying to solve. There are too many ways around charging to levy a tax. I think pay-per-mile is unavoidable at this point. How is another question.

It's very necessary for grid management etc.

Certainly until such point as there is greater take up or no allowed alternative it would be foolish to do anything that increased ev costs. But after that there is an eventual 24 bln hole to fill somehow.

 

[OBC John]

I think you get more than 7 minutes at 6.7p !! 😂😂

Same as me, I think you mean
00:00-07:00 @6.7p
07:00-00:00 @24.4p

Otherwise your deal is rubbish 😲😲😉

Yes, it would be a s**t deal, wouldn't it? DOH!

 

[triplefan]

ROI is extremely difficult to calculate as the energy market is in constant flux, the best solution today may not be as good tomorrow, I too have Solar and Batteries, in my previous 3 bed house my total energy standing order was £260/month, on intelligent go and 15p export my s/o in my new house is £50 and that includes running the car, so at the moment 5 years.

 

[triplefan]

So have you calculated your ROI on that setup? Interested to know

ROI is extremely difficult to calculate as the energy market is in constant flux, the best solution today may not be as good tomorrow, I too have Solar and Batteries, in my previous 3 bed house my total energy standing order was £260/month, on intelligent go and 15p export my s/o in my new house is £50 and that includes running the car, so at the moment 5 years.

 

[OBC John]

If something is worth posting, it's worth posting twice.

 

[PeterIPace]

The Eon deal is no longer available. Only 6 hours off-peak now

 

[Mr Pacey]

My Eon Next Drive dual tarrif goes . . .
00.00-0.07 6.7p/kWh
0.07-00.00 24.4p/kWh
Standing daily charge 63.3p
Fixed for 2 years when I signed up in November last year.

Unfortunately, Eon Off Peak hours are now 00:00 to 06:00.

 

[williamsonmiff1972]

They are all compatible in that your hive charger will work just as well no matter who you buy the electricity from. I think you are saying that you cannot integrate Octopus Intelligent with the I Pace and I am not sure about whether you can integrate intelligent through the Hive charger?
Octopus still do some good tariffs, as well as Intelligent. However, last time I checked, EonNext had a better tariff.

Octopus are limited in that they only integrate with chargers they sell.

it also depends if you have solar panels and battery or not as to what is the best octopus tariff

I’m on octopus flux as I have solar panels and battery

can’t go intelligent as I have pod point and ipace neither of which are compatible to integrate with intelligent

I schedule the car to charge at the cheap night rate and can charge from solar when we have lots of sun