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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
hi, just wanted to make sure I have this right as tomorrow will be my first commute and don鈥檛 want to get up tomorrow morning and find that i need to find a fast charger 馃槀

So I set a schedule for tomorrow morning for 6am, the car recognised that I鈥檝e plugged the charger in and it sat for about 10 minutes charging at 1-4 miles per hour. It鈥檚 now jumped up to 20.

I guess my question is really does the car limit the charge so that it takes the full amount of time to get to 100% by the departure time, I鈥檓 assuming it does as the time remaining works out to the departure time that I set.

I haven鈥檛 yet set any preferred charging times as I don鈥檛 currently need to with my energy tariff.

thanks all.
 

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My experience (from the charger log file) with the MY21 is that if you have no preferred charging time, it starts charging immediately regardless of the fact that it will reach an SoC 100% many hours before the scheduled departure time. It seems to then do some battery preconditioning before departure by drawing current from the traction battery. Then it starts charging again to top back up to 100%. About 30 minutes before departure it heats the cabin to the required temperature, again from the traction battery.
 

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My experience (from the charger log file) with the MY21 is that if you have no preferred charging time, it starts charging immediately regardless of the fact that it will reach an SoC 100% many hours before the scheduled departure time. It seems to then do some battery preconditioning before departure by drawing current from the traction battery. Then it starts charging again to top back up to 100%. About 30 minutes before departure it heats the cabin to the required temperature, again from the traction battery.
I thought if you left it plugged in then it preconditions from the charger and heats both the battery and cabin, so that you get maximum range?
 

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The miles per hour prediction about charging rate in the app is not very accurate, I find. My guess is that it may have an averaging time over which is calculates the rate of charging. Moreover, the rate of charging also may be affected by the battery temperature. The battery tends to accept a low rate of charging at low temperatures. As the battery warms up, it starts to accept faster charging rate, and this slowly increases until the battery reaches optimal temperature for accepting charge.
Hope that makes sense.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
My experience (from the charger log file) with the MY21 is that if you have no preferred charging time, it starts charging immediately regardless of the fact that it will reach an SoC 100% many hours before the scheduled departure time. It seems to then do some battery preconditioning before departure by drawing current from the traction battery. Then it starts charging again to top back up to 100%. About 30 minutes before departure it heats the cabin to the required temperature, again from the traction battery.
Mines a My20 but I guess they should function the same. Having said that (Haven鈥檛 looked at any logs) but keeping a rough eye on mine, it took the full duration to charge but constantly varying the charge rate. When I say duration I set a departure time of 6am and plugged in at 20:30. Car said estimated finish time 10 and half hours. I could tell the car was pulling a full 7.5kw from the smart meter, but was definitely not charging at that rate.

I鈥檒l set another schedule up but I鈥榣l plug in later and see if it does anything different. Everything was all ready and waiting for me so not too bothered but I do like to know how these thingS actually work 馃榿
 

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I thought if you left it plugged in then it preconditions from the charger and heats both the battery and cabin, so that you get maximum range?
As far as I understand it, the car requires to be connected to the charger to even contemplate preconditioning the battery when all logic parameters are fulfilled. However, at least for cabin preconditioning (and very likely for battery preconditioning) the current is drawn from the traction battery . You can run cabin preconditioning independent of whether the car is connected to a charger or not (from the app or from Pivi). Having drawn current from the traction battery for the preconditioning it then tops up the battery if connected to the charger. It could also be that it charges the car into the top buffer (depending on SoH and degradation) so that the power required for the preconditioning phases still more or less results in an SoC of 100% at the set departure time.
 

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When the charger is delivering a constant 7kW, the battery will receive a bit over 6kW continuously as well. Only at the very last bit, when cell balancing, the car may draw less.

What the app (Jaguar Remote or Wattcat) may be telling is NOT correct. It provides a number inferred from the change in SoC, not what is sent to the car - let alone what effectively enters the battery. No fault on either app, the car does it report better data to the internet API. That inferrence also explains why Wattcat for instance at certain moments reports that the car is taking in far more than what the charger is capable of delivering. At other moments it reports less than what actually arrives. If you read the actual data from the BMS through OBD2, you see the reality.

For preconditioning, the car will always first try and charge the battery to 100%. If after that there is time available before planned departure, it will then precondition the battery -i.e. warm it up to about 20掳C. Where possible this warming of the battery will start around 4 hours before departure.

Finally, 30mins before departure, the car will precondition the cabin. That is the only conditioning that happens with a SoC below 100%.

If you car said that it needed all the time until departure to reach 100% SoC, the battery conditioning did not take place. No time...
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
When the charger is delivering a constant 7kW, the battery will receive a bit over 6kW continuously as well. Only at the very last bit, when cell balancing, the car may draw less.

What the app (Jaguar Remote or Wattcat) may be telling is NOT correct. It provides a number inferred from the change in SoC, not what is sent to the car - let alone what effectively enters the battery. No fault on either app, the car does it report better data to the internet API. That inferrence also explains why Wattcat for instance at certain moments reports that the car is taking in far more than what the charger is capable of delivering. At other moments it reports less than what actually arrives. If you read the actual data from the BMS through OBD2, you see the reality.

For preconditioning, the car will always first try and charge the battery to 100%. If after that there is time available before planned departure, it will then precondition the battery -i.e. warm it up to about 20掳C. Where possible this warming of the battery will start around 4 hours before departure.

Finally, 30mins before departure, the car will precondition the cabin. That is the only conditioning that happens with a SoC below 100%.

If you car said that it needed all the time until departure to reach 100% SoC, the battery conditioning did not take place. No time...
Great explaination, thanks 馃憤

Interestingly I set a precondition tonight (very similar conditions to yesterday and with the same timings) and got pretty much the same estimated charge finish time. I then unplugged, waited an hour and a half and did the same thing. The estimated charge time changed to be an hour and a half shorter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
One last question on departure times :)

If I have both a departure time set, a preffered charging period and plug the car in early presumably the car will start the charging at the start of the preffered charging period. But, if the car thinks it doesn't have enough time to charge before the departure time will it just start charging striaight away, then when it does have enough time stop and then re-start at the beggining of the preffered time.

Hope that's clear as mud :)

Bit of an update...

Preffered charging time set to 21:00 to 07:00
Departure time set at 06:00 (tomorrow)
Physically plugged in charging cable at 15:00 today

Car starts charging straight away, smart meter is saying it's delivering 7.4kw

Car/App is saying that it will take 8 hours 47 min to charge @ 18 miles per hour

So why is it charging now when according to the numbers it will finish charging at 1 o'clock in the morning?

Think I might just forget about the departure stuff, let the wall charger manage the charge times, ignore the battery conditioning and just tell the cabin to warm up manually next time and see what that does for range / charge times. :)

Thanks.
 

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One last question on departure times :)

If I have both a departure time set, a preffered charging period and plug the car in early presumably the car will start the charging at the start of the preffered charging period. But, if the car thinks it doesn't have enough time to charge before the departure time will it just start charging striaight away, then when it does have enough time stop and then re-start at the beggining of the preffered time.

Hope that's clear as mud :)

Bit of an update...

Preffered charging time set to 21:00 to 07:00
Departure time set at 06:00 (tomorrow)
Physically plugged in charging cable at 15:00 today

Car starts charging straight away, smart meter is saying it's delivering 7.4kw

Car/App is saying that it will take 8 hours 47 min to charge @ 18 miles per hour

So why is it charging now when according to the numbers it will finish charging at 1 o'clock in the morning?

Think I might just forget about the departure stuff, let the wall charger manage the charge times, ignore the battery conditioning and just tell the cabin to warm up manually next time and see what that does for range / charge times. :)

Thanks.
Simple answer.
Preferred charging time is only 10hrs.
Your departure was set an hour earlier, thus only 9hrs available to charge.
Charging will take 8hr 47mins, but preconditioning of the battery takes upwards of 2hrs extra, of the cabin 30mins extra.
Thus, car doesn't believe it has time to complete all your requests if it waits until 2100 to start. So, the default is start now.
 

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Simple answer.
Preferred charging time is only 10hrs.
Your departure was set an hour earlier, thus only 9hrs available to charge.
Charging will take 8hr 47mins, but preconditioning of the battery takes upwards of 2hrs extra, of the cabin 30mins extra.
Thus, car doesn't believe it has time to complete all your requests if it waits until 2100 to start. So, the default is start now.
So for this example if the preferred charging time is turned off and the car is plugged in at 15:00 the day before the set departure time of 06:00, with about 9 hours to reach 100% SoC, plus 2 hours of battery preconditioning, plus 30 mins of cabin preconditioning, it should start charging at about 18:00-18:30?
 

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In another thread Maxwell_400 said this: preconditioned the battery to +20c, after 1.5hr drive in -10c, the battery temp dropped to +7c. So I too have pretty much given up the battery pre-condition notion & just hit the Climate 10 minutes before I leave.. simple and doesn't seem to affect the overall range much, and also does not consume that extra power from the wall charger.
 

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In another thread Maxwell_400 said this: preconditioned the battery to +20c, after 1.5hr drive in -10c, the battery temp dropped to +7c. So I too have pretty much given up the battery pre-condition notion & just hit the Climate 10 minutes before I leave.. simple and doesn't seem to affect the overall range much, and also does not consume that extra power from the wall charger.
I think you are right for shorter trips in winter its not really worth preconditioning the battery for range. However, if you have a longer journey which involves at least one planned charging stop at a HPC it may make sense. The higher the battery temperature when you arrive at the charger the shorter the period of cold gating.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I think you are right for shorter trips in winter its not really worth preconditioning the battery for range. However, if you have a longer journey which involves at least one planned charging stop at a HPC it may make sense. The higher the battery temperature when you arrive at the charger the shorter the period of cold gating.
Yeah i've decided it's just not worth the hassle, spent some time configuring my wall charger to have an on schedule according to our cheap tariff times and used the siri shortcuts from another member to auto-start the pre-conditioning when my work alarm gets turned off. So I now just plug in at some point the night before and it all kicks in on it's own.

I was worried about the car being plugged in "initialising" for hours and it timing out but it sat there for over 5 hours and started straight away when the charger energised.

It would be so much better if the car worked the other way round. It obviously knows it doesn't have enough time to do everything so must know how long it needs, instead of starting right away it just needs to figure out how much it's short and start as close as possible to the start of the preffered charging time, that way it will only be sat charging at a higher tariff for a shorter amount of time.

Cracking car though :)
 

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Yeah i've decided it's just not worth the hassle, spent some time configuring my wall charger to have an on schedule according to our cheap tariff times and used the siri shortcuts from another member to auto-start the pre-conditioning when my work alarm gets turned off. So I now just plug in at some point the night before and it all kicks in on it's own.

I was worried about the car being plugged in "initialising" for hours and it timing out but it sat there for over 5 hours and started straight away when the charger energised.

It would be so much better if the car worked the other way round. It obviously knows it doesn't have enough time to do everything so must know how long it needs, instead of starting right away it just needs to figure out how much it's short and start as close as possible to the start of the preffered charging time, that way it will only be sat charging at a higher tariff for a shorter amount of time.

Cracking car though :)
I have my home charger set to run off peak to match Octopus Go off peak times.

You can run pre-conditioning but you need to switch the charger to always on (rather than peak time only for this to work). So the ideal before a long journey is to switch the charger to always on (when the car is less than a 4 hour charge to full) after 00:30 and then the pre-conditioning works if the departure time is not too early. This way most energy is consumed within the off peak window with just a small top up then to support pre-conditioning in peak hours.

It is all a bit of a faff though.
 

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"It is all a bit of a faff though." - that's for sure!
 

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Just did a little test this evening. Departure set for 11:30 tomorrow, starting SoC 70%, we have a 3 phase 11kW charger here at home. Plugged it in at around 17:00 this evening, oodles of time to get to 100% before preconditioning. It starts charging immediately, some how I expected it to hold off starting charging until later. So then I set the preferred charging 00:00-06:00 and it switches to 鈥渢imed charging鈥 in blue flashing mode on the dash and charging port. It doesnt seem to matter how far in the future you schedule the departure time relative to the starting SoC, it will start charging immediately if the preferred charging period is not set?
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Just did a little test this evening. Departure set for 11:30 tomorrow, starting SoC 70%, we have a 3 phase 11kW charger here at home. Plugged it in at around 17:00 this evening, oodles of time to get to 100% before preconditioning. It starts charging immediately, some how I expected it to hold off starting charging until later. So then I set the preferred charging 00:00-06:00 and it switches to 鈥渢imed charging鈥 in blue flashing mode on the dash and charging port. It doesnt seem to matter how far in the future you schedule the departure time relative to the starting SoC, it will start charging immediately if the preferred charging period is not set?
Yeah I think that鈥檚 correct mate
 
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