I've seen at least one other report of a user encountering restricted charging. It means that your battery has a defect on some level, and the software is doing it's job. Given that you're at elevated risk for a fire, I'd book it into the dealer as quick as possible, and park away from structures.

 

Same here. Never had a problem before.
My car is booked in for Monday. Hope they can fix it fast.
Dealer wasn’t really clear with advice on the phone. Hope they sort it out.
Let’s keep each other updated.

 

Hope you get this sorted quickly. I'm sure knowledge is power because you wouldn't have even known this prior to the update.
This will be top priority for Jaguar and LG so it should be a high priority and good experience.

 

Been charging It for 4.5 years now, always filled up to 100% ... wonder if it will fire up now ... my dealer is on holidays, so 2 weeks to go.

 

Why would it fire up now, especially if you only now charge to 72 % ? It might be a faulty battery module that's been there for some time. Good to catch this now. I would have used the car as you normally do, but maybe not park to close to buildings, just in case as Jaguar instruct us.

I think you can get a picture of your battery status if you use a Bluetooth OBD2 adapter and f.i. Car Scanner pro software, as I use. Have been charging all day at approx 5 A, and at 60% I get Volt max 3.74, Volt min 3.73, Battery temp 20C and Coolant temp 30C, Ambient temp 15C - all numbers look ok to me. High battery temp and or big difference in Volt max/min readings might indicate something is wrong. Edit: Might have mixed the temperatures (battery/coolant) - sound a bit strange to me...

 

As we are saying, although you may have an issue you are now better placed than you were before the update.
The lower charge state it allows is a likely very affective mitigation in itself.
You could have driven this unaware for months or even years previously.
I definatly understand your concern is course, but it is highly likely you will benefit from the work they have to do.
I think it interesting that you always filled up to 100% which of course you are entitled to do but this isn't usually recommended. Is this in some way related. Not that it should be this way.

 

After being without my car for 5 weeks while the A/C was repaired i got it back with this update applied also. Charged to full to go on long journey and now the have the "Traction Battery Fault - Drive With Caution" message. It wont clear, and car wont charge beyond 72%.

Called Assist who attended and advised I am on my own with this one i.e. no expedited repair or courtesy car, I guess because car is still OK to use. So i am booked direct with dealer in for a few weeks time. Unfortunately, before then i have a 1000 mile round trip for a holiday to Northern Scotland!

Does anyone have any real world experience of how Rapid charging is affected when under the H441 warning?

I'm already having visions of maxing out at 20kw and needing to sit for hours at each stop!!!

Thanks

 

I ma still charging ar 100kw-80kw per hour in the first 60% of charging, so speed is not affected, only the maximum.

 

If I understant the jag recall correctly, if a fault is detected by the software on the HV pack , they will then change the whole battery pack or affected cells ?

 

Whatever needs replacing. Individual pouches or the entire array if that’s what is at fault.

 

The workshop manual has separate instructions for replacing each of the 36 cells in the traction battery. They do not replace pouches inside cells. I expect every I-pace certified tech to be able to complete the repair. Shipping replacement cells is a lower cost approach than an entire traction battery especially when the shell is completely reusable.

Others who have experienced charging/range issues due to cell failures have had this surgery. I would expect the entire battery to be replaced if the number of bad/suspect cells exceeds some unstated threshold.

Any replacement requires approval from JLR as dealers are not authorized to make the decision for such a high cost warranty claim.

 

The workshop manual has separate instructions for replacing each of the 36 cells in the traction battery. They do not replace pouches inside cells. I expect every I-pace certified tech to be able to complete the repair. Shipping replacement cells is a lower cost approach than an entire traction battery especially when the shell is completely reusable.

Others who have experienced charging/range issues due to cell failures have had this surgery. I would expect the entire battery to be replaced if the number of bad/suspect cells exceeds some unstated threshold.

Any replacement requires approval from JLR as dealers are not authorized to make the decision for such a high cost warranty claim.

I stand corrected, thank you.

 

Sorry my bad I stand corrected. Thank you for clarifying.

 

With this mod identifying bad cells there will be a few batteries being recycled.

 

Worth noting that the battery is made up from 36 modules (not cells) and each module contains 12 cells. The cells are not serviceable, the service items are the modules. The configuration of the cells inside each module is 4P 3S, so there are 3 series connected groups of 4 parallel connected cells.

It's not actually possible to identify "bad cells" as such, as each of the cells is hard wired to 3 others, so any one of the 4 cells in each group could fail and the only way to check this would be to dismantle the module and break the tab welds on the cells. This would be too hazardous to do as a service task, plus there isn't an easy way to re-weld the cells tabs back together after checking. The check is for the group cell voltages within each module - if any are abnormal then the whole module gets replaced.

The individual cells have a terminal voltage that's typically around 3.7V, the modules have a terminal voltage that's typically around 11.1V. There's a wide variation on this voltage range, depending on state of charge. Replacing the modules is straightforward, as they are designed to be removed and replaced (by a suitably qualified HV technician with all the right PPE).

Edited to add:

This is what a 12 cell battery module looks like:

They are stacked inside the battery case and connected with bus bars. Here's a time lapse of an IPace pack being taken apart:

 

If anyone wants to see what's involved in replacing battery cells, rather than the sealed 12 cell modules, then this brave soul has had a go (needed a big hammer and chisel to get the modules open though!):

Jaguar IPACE battery full monty

Last time i posted my first attempt at taking off alu box off Jaguar battery modules. That was a scary adventure, since the battery is glued to the bottom by some thermal compound. We couldnt make …

leafdriveblog.wordpress.com

This is a photo of the chiselled open 12 cell module, showing the individual cells. It's a good illustration as to why replacing individual failed cells isn't a practical proposition:

 

If anyone wants to see what's involved in replacing battery cells, rather than the sealed 12 cell modules, then this brave soul has had a go (needed a big hammer and chisel to get the modules open though!):

Jaguar IPACE battery full monty

Last time i posted my first attempt at taking off alu box off Jaguar battery modules. That was a scary adventure, since the battery is glued to the bottom by some thermal compound. We couldnt make …

leafdriveblog.wordpress.com

This is a photo of the chiselled open 12 cell module, showing the individual cells. It's a good illustration as to why replacing individual failed cells isn't a practical proposition:

View attachment 9344

Worth noting that the battery is made up from 36 modules (not cells) and each module contains 12 cells. The cells are not serviceable, the service items are the modules. The configuration of the cells inside each module is 4P 3S, so there are 3 series connected groups of 4 parallel connected cells.

It's not actually possible to identify "bad cells" as such, as each of the cells is hard wired to 3 others, so any one of the 4 cells in each group could fail and the only way to check this would be to dismantle the module and break the tab welds on the cells. This would be too hazardous to do as a service task, plus there isn't an easy way to re-weld the cells tabs back together after checking. The check is for the group cell voltages within each module - if any are abnormal then the whole module gets replaced.

The individual cells have a terminal voltage that's typically around 3.7V, the modules have a terminal voltage that's typically around 11.1V. There's a wide variation on this voltage range, depending on state of charge. Replacing the modules is straightforward, as they are designed to be removed and replaced (by a suitably qualified HV technician with all the right PPE).

Edited to add:

This is what a 12 cell battery module looks like:

View attachment 9343

They are stacked inside the battery case and connected with bus bars. Here's a time lapse of an IPace pack being taken apart:

Worth noting that the battery is made up from 36 modules (not cells) and each module contains 12 cells. The cells are not serviceable, the service items are the modules. The configuration of the cells inside each module is 4P 3S, so there are 3 series connected groups of 4 parallel connected cells.

It's not actually possible to identify "bad cells" as such, as each of the cells is hard wired to 3 others, so any one of the 4 cells in each group could fail and the only way to check this would be to dismantle the module and break the tab welds on the cells. This would be too hazardous to do as a service task, plus there isn't an easy way to re-weld the cells tabs back together after checking. The check is for the group cell voltages within each module - if any are abnormal then the whole module gets replaced.

The individual cells have a terminal voltage that's typically around 3.7V, the modules have a terminal voltage that's typically around 11.1V. There's a wide variation on this voltage range, depending on state of charge. Replacing the modules is straightforward, as they are designed to be removed and replaced (by a suitably qualified HV technician with all the right PPE).

Edited to add:

This is what a 12 cell battery module looks like:

View attachment 9343

They are stacked inside the battery case and connected with bus bars. Here's a time lapse of an IPace pack being taken apart:

Hello Slartibartfast,

Could you please tell me, has there been a replacement HV battery for the IPace or is this the only one available, which can catch fire?

Thanks

 

^ Are those fins/channels on the outer casing for coolant? Or a passive heat sink?

 

That's just adhesive residue I think, that conformed to the edges of the pouch cells when the module was still in one piece. The pouch cells are bonded together and bonded to the module case. The chap that bravely ripped that one apart described how tough the adhesive was bonding everything together.

 

Same here.. Last Wednesday I received a registered letter form JLR stating that my 2018 model needed the software update (H441). They installed it last Thursday (next day!). Today (Saturday) at an Ionity fast charger: Hybrid Battery fault (press OK to continue..). Also charge level limited to 72%. Next chargers: same issue.
Interestingly in the registered letter JLR stated that when faults are detected after the H441 update they will take care of it.
I will contact JLR first thing Monday morning. Unfortunately not in NL now but in Switzerland..

Driven 138.000 km so far.

 

I have the same Problem, Vehicle went in for service and H441 update around 2 weeks ago. And day before yesterday I have traction battery fault message and charging limited to 72%. Message suggests that it's still OK to drive the vehicle. It's going into the dealer in a couple of days so I'll keep you posted

 

UPDATE
Vehicle went in to local dealer on the 9th August. I had a call later that day saying that the whole battery is to be replaced under warranty (car is 3yrs old 44000 miles). As yet no delivery date for battery from Jaguar . Vehicle will not be released back to me "for safety reasons" so dealer unable to give a return date. They have provided me with a hire car (Vauxhall Corsa) so I'm mobile albeit a bit cramped

 

Hello Slartibartfast,

Could you please tell me, has there been a replacement HV battery for the IPace or is this the only one available, which can catch fire?

Thanks

I believe LG fixed the problem around late 2021, early 2022, so battery modules manufactured after then should be OK. LG have been a bit coy about the exact cause and the fix they've implemented, but it was a problem that affected a wide range of cars, from Hyundai, Kia, GM etc as well as Jaguar. The fact that the problem affected so many cars almost certainly added impetus when it came to fixing the problem.

 

I agreed to buy a MY21 registered September 2021, the salesperson stated the system did not flag the need for a H441 update. An indetentical March registered one did. I think the build date was June 2021 for the September registered Ipace. So it appears LG had implemented a fix around June 2021. I've asked for a battery health report prior to pick up. What battery capacity should I expect for a 2021 with 28,000 mile on the clock, 90%?

 

My vehicle is 2019, thanks for the info. Hopefully I'll get a rapid fix to my problem or am I living in a parallel universe.

 

My car had now been in for post H441 diagnosis. Was told that it needed a new battery but due to @Ayepace 's note on another thread, was able to ask whether they meant a battery or a module, and if latter how many had failed. Turns out it was one module!

I guess job to replace modules is arguably bigger than a replacement of the entire pack?

Do worry how long it will be until i get the car back. Currently in a Discovery Sport which absolutely sucks!

 

It does take less time to replace an entire battery pack than a single module inside. It avoids the a labor and parts for opening of the pack, the individual modules, resealing and pressure testing the battery pack before re-installing it in the car. However, that 7 module limit text comes from Jaguar's SSM776062. They'll have to get Jaguar corporate approval for any of these repairs. They'll be the ones deciding module vs. pack. Since the battery is made in Poland, it is probably easier and cheaper to ship whole batteries to European locations than to more distant locations (eg. North America and Australia).

This brings up questions. Will replacement battery packs be totally new or refurbished? Will a pack such as hepburn's be repaired and then sent back out to a dealer (or repaired at the dealer) to be used to fix another car?

 

Some will definately be lucky and get new packs. Probably the first cars. But since the packs have a very high cost even for the manufacturer, i believe they will recover the faulty ones at some facility, change there the affected cells and ship them back for other cars.

 

Hi My NAme is Tim from GErmany. i have the same Problems. I pict up my jag from Update and two Days later i have the Hybrid Battery fale.

 

There's a healthy second hand market for IPace battery modules and whole packs. A good condition second hand pack sells for about £18k and individual modules sell for around £500 each. These prices are around half the price of JLR list price for new parts, I believe. Might make sense for JLR to just sell packs taken out of cars to those companies that are breaking them and selling modules. The modules are a convenient size and capacity for EV conversions, and there seems to be a low volume market for those.

 

I have now experienced the same problem with my MY19 FE.

I contacted my local dealer yesterday (Reading, UK) and was told that, as my car is out of the 3 year warranty, it would cost me £220 for initial diagnosis. They were uninterested in providing any courtesy car, and initially would not offer me an appointment until early NOVEMBER! They eventually offered an appointment on the 28th September. The service agent seemed entirely uninformed about the issue, and disinterested in any information I have gleaned from this thread and the warranty on the battery. Has anyone else had such an unsympathetic response from their dealer or had more interest or insight by contacting JLR directly?

 

This is unacceptable. It’s all part and parcel of the H441 recall. So there should be no diagnostic fee if you are experiencing limited charging and have errors present post H441 software application e.g. traction battery.

 

This is unacceptable. It’s all part and parcel of the H441 recall. So there should be no diagnostic fee if you are experiencing limited charging and have errors present post H441 software application e.g. traction battery.

It sounds to me as if someone with near-zero technical knowledge is reading off a script and quoting the possible diagnostic fee as if it definitely applies. We had something similar with my wife's last car (a hybrid). It developed an obvious battery-related fault indication. The battery had an 8 year warranty. The dealer asked for a diagnostic fee, and I agreed, subject to them not charging us for that fee when they realised that it was covered by the battery warranty. Turned out fine, as when we took the car in the service manager knew exactly what the issue was (nothing major as it happens) and told me that there would be no question of us paying anything, as it was covered by the battery warranty.

I think this sort of thing is to be expected when the customer-facing staff are essentially reading from a script. Just had a similar experience when talking to a broadband provider - the customer services person had no authority to go "off script", even when I told her that her diagnosis of the problem was clearly incorrect. Had to raise a complaint (with a threat to cancel my contract) to get through to someone that understood their systems very well and could very quickly sort out the problem.

 

Warning after half an hour on a 50kWh public charger. Pod Point. Tesco.

Trawled through the threads on here. Nothing mentions a fix.

Discussion on how battery heats up during fast charging.
One count of Jag Assist ‘reset.’
Another on car being in dealership over 7 weeks.

Something to worry about?
Has not come back since leaving the charger.

 

View attachment 9630
Warning after half an hour on a 50kWh public charger. Pod Point. Tesco.

Trawled through the threads on here. Nothing mentions a fix.

Discussion on how battery heats up during fast charging.
One count of Jag Assist ‘reset.’
Another on car being in dealership over 7 weeks.

Something to worry about?
Has not come back since leaving the charger.

Morning Catlna Tree

Take photos each time it happens so you have a time stamp and some proof but... I had this last year and it came up a few times in the summer and then disappeared. Didn't ever get it again on my original 12v batteries.

The 12vs would seem to be the Achilles heal on this vehicle.

 

Check the 12 V batteries. Low voltage can give all kind of errors. I think Jaguar should send a Voltmeter to all owners

 

Thanks. Will check my CTEK battery monitor readings later (I have one on AUX and one on main). Hopefully not the case. Only had them replaced several months ago by Jag Assist.

Update. Readings at rest. Car driven yesterday. Situation: garage locked/parked. Aux is 13.7v and main is 12.8v. Looks good to me.