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Hmm.. yes, looked there but no sign of that option. Not even a greyed-out option.

Strange. My screens are the same as your's shown in the first post. Do you have the option?
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 · (Edited)
As an owner for almost 3yrs, I'll add my perspective. Note the relationship you have with dealerships in the UK may be different to ours in the US.

These cars are way beyond the complexity of a cell phone, and so comparing the frequency of updates is perhaps not fair. One aspect of the software that is commonly misunderstood is the complexity of the numerous systems running in parallel together to keep the car running smoothly. What you see as Touch Pro or PIVI is only the front end of the overall system that reports how the car is running and gives infotainment options. This had been updatable OTA since the beginning, and has addressed many cosmetic problems such as forgetting wifi passwords, access to CarPlay, etc. Cars running Touch Pro are using difference hardware to those running PIVI and so it is not possible to switch.

What has not been updatable via OTA until recently (and even now is not uniformally available) has been the vehicle control software that comprises numerous pieces of code that separately run things like the telecommunication unit (TCU), the battery management (BCM) etc etc. In that regard, your car is better compared to your whole office setup including printer, scanner, modem, speakers, and all the other devices hooked into your computer.

There are plenty of stories around the forums of updates to some of these systems crashing the modules and subsequently needing either reinstalling of the older versions, or in a few cases replacing of the physical units. For this reason, most dealerships in the US will not update unless necessary. I am still running TCU version 17.2, and have no problems.

Most ICE vehicles have similar albeit less complex systems controlling the mechanics of the car, and we don't expect them updated unless we have a problem. That is my perspective, using layman's terminology to keep it comparable to other systems we all use. Hope this helps your understanding of what you have bought.
As someone else said on here… “8 years in the making…and still in Beta”. Someone else wrote Jaguar = Car Manufactuer and Tesla = Software manufacturer. The Jaguar salesman said a “Tesla is a battery with wheels bolted on it”. …I replied “well that’s a very efficient battery with wheels bolted on it that a lot of people buy even with terrible paint jobs and huge panel gaps and small ponds in the trunk when it rains”. (I’m not just critical of Jaguar….)

I know what I bought and what I didn’t. The technology is no more or less complex than Tesla, AUDI or Porsche updating their car software or Apple uploading software for a smart phone. There may be more or less of it…but the means of sending, transition and reception is the same for Tesla, Jaguar, Porsche, Smart metres etc… Perhaps Jaguar should ask Tesla to write their code for them?

I have tolerance and patience for new things and understand nothing is perfect. In reality though, you have your shit together or you don’t and even when you do, things still can go wrong. Board Directors understand this and there are no excuses at that level because they get what is at stake and what the competition is and what it is capable of.

Ultimately, if it doesn’t work as it should or as self advertised then you risk as a manufacturer not getting the business the next time the customer comes to buy the same product and that applies to Jaguar and Apple and Airlines…and anything. It’s a very competitive market out there and before companies invest huge sums of money on research and building entire factories and bespoke platforms someone asks “is this possible and can ‘we’ do it?”

One of the reasons I kept buying a VW Golf is because it worked and was reliable and did what it said on the side of the tin. The complexity of the technology at the time was relative and the same for all car manufacturers. Everything is relative… it’s not that I’m thick and don’t understand the complexity in my small mind…it’s that Jaguar said “we can do this” and advertised their version of SOTA. They do have a choice not to advertise that quality…

20th July 1969 messages were sent back and forth between ground control and the Eagle. 1987 Airbus build a generation ahead aircraft with multiple computer systems working together to create a safe environment moving at 500mph for people sitting in nothing more than aluminium coke can. There’s nothing new or complex about this technology. IBM make computers from components from lots of different manufacturers. Apple make computers with components they mostly make but even that has changed.

Let’s take something ‘less complex’. Many complain on this forum about water leaks and unbinding of the windshield and the damp smelly carpets….for £75,000. How you respond to that individual issue is a measure of your character and reputation. If you argue there is no leak to be found or say you replaced the windscreen but the damp carpets are your problem then I wouldn’t expect to see that customer next time they want to buy a new car…
 

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As someone else said on here… “8 years in the making…and still in Beta”. Someone else wrote Jaguar = Car Manufactuer and Tesla = Software manufacturer. The Jaguar salesman said a “Tesla is a battery with wheels bolted on it”. …I replied “well that’s a very efficient battery with wheels bolted on it that a lot of people buy even with terrible paint jobs and huge panel gaps and small ponds in the trunk when it rains”. (I’m not just critical of Jaguar….)

I know what I bought and what I didn’t. The technology is no more or less complex than Tesla, AUDI or Porsche updating their car software or Apple uploading software for a smart phone. There may be more or less of it…but the means of sending, transition and reception is the same for Tesla, Jaguar, Porsche, Smart metres etc… Perhaps Jaguar should ask Tesla to write their code for them?

I have tolerance and patience for new things and understand nothing is perfect. In reality though, you have your shit together or you don’t and even when you do, things still can go wrong. Board Directors understand this and there are no excuses at that level because they get what is at stake and what the competition is and what it is capable of.

Ultimately, if it doesn’t work as it should or as self advertised then you risk as a manufacturer not getting the business the next time the customer comes to buy the same product and that applies to Jaguar and Apple and Airlines…and anything. It’s a very competitive market out there and before companies invest huge sums of money on research and building entire factories and bespoke platforms someone asks “is this possible and can ‘we’ do it?”

One of the reasons I kept buying a VW Golf is because it worked and was reliable and did what it said on the side of the tin. The complexity of the technology at the time was relative and the same for all car manufacturers. Everything is relative… it’s not that I’m thick and don’t understand the complexity in my small mind…it’s that Jaguar said “we can do this” and advertised their version of SOTA. They do have a choice not to advertise that quality…

20th July 1969 messages were sent back and forth between ground control and the Eagle. 1987 Airbus build a generation ahead aircraft with multiple computer systems working together to create a safe environment moving at 500mph for people sitting in nothing more than aluminium coke can. There’s nothing new or complex about this technology. IBM make computers from components from lots of different manufacturers. Apple make computers with components they mostly make but even that has changed.

Let’s take something ‘less complex’. Many complain on this forum about water leaks and unbinding of the windshield and the damp smelly carpets….for £75,000. How you respond to that individual issue is a measure of your character and reputation. If you argue there is no leak to be found or say you replaced the windscreen but the damp carpets are your problem then I wouldn’t expect to see that customer next time they want to buy a new car…
I'm not sure I understand your reply. Yes, manufacturers need to and do respond to what the customer wants, and yes other manufacturers of other vehicles make various updates available OTA. But, JLR has never advertised OTA updates for the major battery or drive train components, only the infotainment software.
You were asking about an update from 16.2 to 20.2. This is the TCU software. Until recently updates to this modile were NOT available OTA, and even now most folks didn't get it by OTA even if they have it.

If you have a problem with the I-Pace that can be fixed by software updates, then most dealers will do it. If not why bother. If you want a computer on wheels with monthly updates buy a Mac, put it on a desk with wheels and see how far you can go. If you want an electric car buy one, drive it and don't worry about new bells and whistles every month.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
I'm not sure I understand your reply. Yes, manufacturers need to and do respond to what the customer wants, and yes other manufacturers of other vehicles make various updates available OTA. But, JLR has never advertised OTA updates for the major battery or drive train components, only the infotainment software.
You were asking about an update from 16.2 to 20.2. This is the TCU software. Until recently updates to this modile were NOT available OTA, and even now most folks didn't get it by OTA even if they have it.

If you have a problem with the I-Pace that can be fixed by software updates, then most dealers will do it. If not why bother. If you want a computer on wheels with monthly updates buy a Mac, put it on a desk with wheels and see how far you can go. If you want an electric car buy one, drive it and don't worry about new bells and whistles every month.
2018 Jaguar USA Advertising:


2018 Jaguar Advertising:



Communication Device Font Gadget Screenshot Electronic device
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Hmm.. yes, looked there but no sign of that option. Not even a greyed-out option.

Strange. My screens are the same as your's shown in the first post. Do you have the option?
Good morning Phil

No… I don’t have any option that enables me to select ‘On/Off’ or ‘accept T&Cs’ for SOTA.

That’s the problem. If the car has the ability to update over the air (OTA) and you have an internet connection then reasonably you should be able to and it should be as simple as Jaguar says it is when they sell you the vehicle and as their advertising implies. So I can’t do the update myself because it repeatedly says “no software update available”. It says this because SOTA is not turned on and there is no way for me to turn it on. So a logical corse of proactive action would be to be to take it to a JLR service centre right?

The second problem is when you take it to the dealership or service centre for repair or service and ask “is the software up to date?” you’re repeatedly told ‘yes it is”. In my case there are people with MY19 cars running up to date software and my MY20 car is on 3 year old software.

Reasonably JLR or the dealership (if your an apologist and need to defend someone) have had three opportunities to update the vehicle. Before time of sale. On the day of sale to make sure the vehicle is presentable and up to date (just like the amount of time put into making it look clean which is probably more time than a software
and finally at the service on the 1st of June 2022 three weeks ago.

Now there is a reasonable argument by some that if it isn’t broken don’t fix it. I agree with that.

There is also an argument that something should be kept up to date especially in a world where most software updates describe the update as ‘bug fixes’ but also implement lots of other improvements to benefit the customer. As Koala pointed out,16.2 had an issue where connecting to home Wi-Fi meant you had to renter the network password every time. If you use your home network then that update would be important to you and save you a headache each time you connect to the internet. I’d say that update would be worth downloading….if I could.

If I could do it myself and forgo the headache of calling JLR four times as I did yesterday each time on hold for more than 30 minutes I would.
If I could take it to the dealership and trust that when I ask “is the software up to date” in the same way I used to ask “did you change the oil”, then I would trust them. But as scm pointed out “AIUI, dealers are reluctant to do "unnecessary" updates that will cost them time and money unless they're to fix a customer complaint, in which case Jaguar will pay for it under warranty”.

Jaguar offered me a free “Wash and Vacuum” at the service which sounded good but when I received the car the mats were vacuumed. Everywhere around the mats was not and underneath was not. One person on here had the windscreen replaced and received the back with glue on bonnet and other areas. We’re they unreasonable to complain about that?

My point is this… Why offer a service whether SOTA or vacuuming the car if you don’t do it properly and then make excuses? If you define your product as a ‘Premium product’ then reasonably it should be so in the same way a Two star hotel is expected to be of a certain quality and a five star of that level of quality. If the customer is trying to take responsibility for what they should, just like maintaining your car or washing it or driving safely, then why not assist the customer rather than saying everything is fine when it isn’t.

Then you have the apologists for JLR on here and excuse makers who spend huge amounts of time defending flaws and saying everything is ok instead of proactively trying to find a solution. They don’t care wether there is or is not an issue really. It’s just their ego that needs massaging and they come here to do it.

There are others on here though that offer really helpful advise and show you where and how to solve problems. They offer their experiences, both Good and Bad in a constructive way, to move everyone who owns an iPace forward which is what JLR and the dealerships should be doing instead of saying “everything’s fine”.

I could understand the apologists perspective if someone just complained and did nothing and then complained more. But if you are trying to solve an issue on a car you have spent £70,000 whether a leaking windscreen or damp carpets or faulty battery modules or undownloadable software as is my case, and you making an effort to do your bit, then their feedback is nothing more than empty ego massaging and no help what so ever and they should just be ignored.
 

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The module updates are more bug fixes, only essential when your car has that particular problem. The infotainment updates improve the main user interface, so those are updated over the air automatically when updates are available. If your car has a problem which is related to the modules being outdated, your dealer should update those as well. If you do have problems related to those modules and your dealer refuses to do the work, then you should escalate to Jaguar HQ.
I think the dealer only updates the infortainment system without cause, so "it's all up to date" refers to that.
 
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