Jaguar I-Pace Forum banner
1 - 20 of 37 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi
Can someone let me know if I've got this right.
If car isn't plugged in and I hit climate start on app (official app) that just heats the cabin and doesn't precondition battery. If car has charged overnight and is still plugged in and I hit the climate start on app then the cabin heats but the battery isn't preconditioned and the car battery is used rather than the wall charger. The only way to get battery preconditioned is to set a departure time from the car itself and for this to happen the car must be plugged in with at least 30 mins before departure time. If the car is plugged in there's no way to properly precondition from the Jaguar remote app? I can't see any preconditioning options on the app.
Thanks!
David
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
328 Posts
Supposedly you need to set departure time for preconditioning to activate, supposedly only when connected.

Climate would only impact the cabin. This works both on and off the grid. Have used this regularly.

I have however noticed that when i set departure time in WattCat, when connected, the cabin heating does not seem to come on. As I don't have access to battery temp data, there is no indication of preconditioning status.

Any thoughts or recommendations?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
175 Posts
Davidg999 said:
If car has charged overnight and is still plugged in and I hit the climate start on app then the cabin heats but the battery isn't preconditioned and the car battery is used rather than the wall charger.
David
If the car is plugged in, the climate will use the wall charger instead of the battery.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for confirming that. If car is plugged in and I hit climate it will use the wall charger to heat the cabin but won't precondition the battery at the same time? There's no way to precondition the car from an app ie warm cabin and battery?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
770 Posts
Davidg999 said:
There's no way to precondition the car from an app ie warm cabin and battery?
As far as I've understood battery precondition happens only if:
1) the car is plugged to the grid (no granny charger)
2) the battery SoC is 100%
3) a deperture time has been set

If all the 3 conditions are met, at the departure time both battery and the cabin will be at optimal temperature.

In other words, you cannot "force" battery precondition before a rapid charge or before a trip if you're not connected to the grid.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
140 Posts
I found this youtube vid to be useful in understand how the I Pace charging system works:


Probably has been linked before but first time I've seen it. Nothing to do with me btw.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,403 Posts
Tall Phil said:
I found this youtube vid to be useful in understand how the I Pace charging system works:


Probably has been linked before but first time I've seen it. Nothing to do with me btw.
FWIW I have been using this method of timed charging since early May last year and it has never failed me yet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
217 Posts
I thought I had read that using the app, it will use battery power, to heat the cabin. If plugged in it will then recharge the battery. One reason for this, is that the heating can take more power than some charging options. So if it only took from the charger, you wouldnt get very warm. In taking power from the battery, wont this start to warm it up?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
328 Posts
kermit68 said:
..
1) the car is plugged to the grid (no granny charger)
2) the battery SoC is 100%
3) a deperture time has been set

...
Thanks for the response.

The battery really needs to be 100%? That seems to defeat the purpose of preconditioning before departure. Although with the quirky assumptions around timed charging, I would not be surprised neither.

It could also explain my experience. Since i am charging on public network I set the departure time to on or just before it is expected to be at 100%. So if it waits until at 100% I might have reached the car to early.

The alternative explanation that comes to mind is that the charger is signaling charging complete, before the preconditioning kicks in and tells the car it is off grid preventing preconditioning. Logging drops to 0.8kWh around that stage, so not sure how sensitive the charger handshake is when power consumption ramps up again.

Some more testing to do. Thanks again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
770 Posts
ANBO said:
The battery really needs to be 100%? That seems to defeat the purpose of preconditioning before departure.
I think the whole idea behind battery precondition (in JLR) is that it's needed to optimize range for long trips. My assumption is based on two facts:
1) you can't preconditin the battery as you wish, for example before fast DC charging
2) battery precondition only happens with a "departure time set" and for me departure time sounds like "I have to leave for a trip"

Excluding case #1 where you would like to precondition the battery in order to speed up fast charging, the only other reason you may want to do it is to optimize your range. But while having a battery at the proper temperature does the job, it can't compete, in terms of range optimization, with a 100% SoC.

So probably the projectual scheme could be:
1) I want to optimize my range
2) I need battery @ 100% SoC as it's the most important factor
3) to further optimize the battery could be preconditioned
4) it's pointless to precon using energy from the battery as what you gain in term of efficiency is less compared to what you loose in term of energy not avaialbe for traction as it has been used to precon the battery
5) you need to to be conneced to the grid

That for me is a reasonable explaination why it actually make sense that you have to be at 100% and connceted to the grid in order to precon the battery.

What I do before a long winter trip is to make sure, when I plug the car to my home charger, that there is enough time for the battery to be at 100% at least 4 hours before departure. This because battery precon can happen as long as 4 hours before departure time. It's key to hit that gate with the battery @100% otherwise the SW will skip precon as one condition has not been met at time of checking.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
198 Posts
@ABNO

I think you have identified the problem. Put the car on Charge set a departure time - car charges to 100%. Charger trips off and stays off until the battery goes below 100%.

If battery is at a 100% the charger stays off even if you request climate - The climate runs from the battery.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
477 Posts
kermit68 said:
Davidg999 said:
There's no way to precondition the car from an app ie warm cabin and battery?
As far as I've understood battery precondition happens only if:
1) the car is plugged to the grid (no granny charger)
2) the battery SoC is 100%
3) a deperture time has been set

If all the 3 conditions are met, at the departure time both battery and the cabin will be at optimal temperature.

In other words, you cannot "force" battery precondition before a rapid charge or before a trip if you're not connected to the grid.
As far as I can tell without access to a battery temperature directly, this statement is incorrect.

I'm shopping early the same morning each week, courtesy of the year from hell, and have programmed the car to pre-condition for the departure time weekly and for the smart socket to turn on an hour before.

Normally the car isn't plugged in, so the cabin gets warmed but not the battery.

The trip before last, the car got 2.01mpkWh out and 2.05 back
This week in slightly worse weather and as near identical driving style as usual the figures were 2.53 and 2.10.

The difference I put down to the fact that the car was plugged in and at 100% this week and a 26% efficiency increase occurred despite having limited KERS. The battery had apparently cooled during its hour parked up so that the return trip was only marginally more efficient

I only ever use a granny charger, so that would suggest that your statement (with my emphasis) is not true and that granny charging is perfectly capable of heating the battery.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
770 Posts
Terry60 said:
I only ever use a granny charger, so that would suggest that your statement (with my emphasis) is not true and that granny charging is perfectly capable of heating the battery.
That's good to know. My msg started with "...as far as I've understood ..." so the possbility that I was wrong was included :D

My understang was that 13A delivered by the granny charger could not enough to keep the heat pump running without using also energy from the battery. Your data suggest that actually it's possibile. I may try to run some tests the next days as we'll be nearly locked down for Xmas vacation so plenty of spare time home with nothing to do ....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
328 Posts
kermit68 said:
...What I do before a long winter trip is ...

...This because battery precon can happen as long as 4 hours before departure time. ...
Thanks. Did not occur to me it might take this long, considering during charging the battery should have been kept at temperature as well. Certainly reasonable to set the departure time as soon as you connect to charge to allow the car to determine the timing.

Still wonder why the car would not initiate optimization for departure when the battery is not yet or not expected to be full. Independent of the charge level you would like to get most out of the juice you just put in, certainly when you set off during cold days.

That it has to be connected makes sense. Like an ICE i would expect the batteries to warm more efficient when driven than when standing idle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
168 Posts
I think it was in this thread where someone asked if you can precondition the battery from the app.

You can. I'll try to roughly translate since my app is in German language.
On the "home" screen inside the app. The first row says "distance". You click on that and in the following screen you slide up. There you can set it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
EEV320 said:
I think it was in this thread where someone asked if you can precondition the battery from the app.

You can. I'll try to roughly translate since my app is in German language.
On the "home" screen inside the app. The first row says "distance". You click on that and in the following screen you slide up. There you can set it.
Thanks! That was my main question 😀
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
328 Posts
Terry60 said:
...
The difference I put down to the fact that the car was plugged in and at 100% this week ...

... granny charging is perfectly capable of heating the battery.
Thanks. Based on the user guide stating "plugged into a power source" I would also say there is no reason why the granny charger would not support preconditioning, other than that total power available might have the car prioritize charging, leading to your experience this week when the car indeed reached 100%.

Suppose also total time needed to precondition and cabin heating with our without heat pump could influence that experience on lower power. None the less another concern removed from opting for low power charging in our communal garage.

And some testing to do on the public network to see if I can prevent the charger turning off before preconditioning and/or cabin heating to start.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
328 Posts
Davidg999 said:
EEV320 said:
I think it was in this thread where someone asked if you can precondition the battery from the app.

You can. I'll try to roughly translate since my app is in German language.
On the "home" screen inside the app. The first row says "distance". You click on that and in the following screen you slide up. There you can set it.
Thanks! That was my main question 😀
Apologies, did not realise you asked for the official app. You select the connection/charging status > submenu, where you can set vehicle departure and charging periods. The vehicle departure sets preconditioning as discussed in the aptly named 'preconditioning questions'. Still have a few apparently 😁
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
477 Posts
ANBO said:
Terry60 said:
...
The difference I put down to the fact that the car was plugged in and at 100% this week ...

... granny charging is perfectly capable of heating the battery.
Thanks. Based on the user guide stating "plugged into a power source" I would also say there is no reason why the granny charger would not support preconditioning, other than that total power available might have the car prioritize charging, leading to your experience this week when the car indeed reached 100%.

Suppose also total time needed to precondition and cabin heating with our without heat pump could influence that experience on lower power. None the less another concern removed from opting for low power charging in our communal garage.

And some testing to do on the public network to see if I can prevent the charger turning off before preconditioning and/or cabin heating to start.
From my understanding of the physics and chemistry of battery charging, it would make perfect sense for the charger (granny or otherwise) to prioritize heating the battery in order that the battery achieve its most efficient charging temperature as early as possible.
EV Bjorn's recent cold weather camping out experiment would seem to support that.
The M3 began charging at high level due to the Tesla sat-nav feature of anticipating a charging stop by pre-heating the battery en-route, whereas the i-Pace EV320 started very low but surprised him a little while later by achieving unexpectedly high charge rate once its battery had matched the Tesla's temperature.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
328 Posts
Terry60 said:
...it would make perfect sense for the charger (granny or otherwise) to prioritize heating the battery in order that the battery achieve its most efficient charging temperature as early as possible...
I meant it more from a standpoint of prioritising maximum charge over preparing for departure.
You touch on an interesting point there though: if you are not yet at 100% and still charging, the battery should already be pre-conditioned... 🤔. Would this be enough to skip the departure procedure entirely and not heat the cabin?
 
1 - 20 of 37 Posts
Top