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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi
This my first post on the forum, before I get into the detail I would like to thank everyone posting on the forum for their guidance over the last two years.

I have had the car (from new MY2020) for exactly 2 years and we are very happy with the I pace and thanks to the forum we seem to have avoided most of the pitfalls. However this week I took the car in to get its first service (12000 mile or 2 years, in my case due to the pandemic we have only covered 9000 miles) expecting a smooth experience. They gave us an I pace HSE as a courtesy car so we enjoyed a trip out into the dales while waiting for the text to tell us my car was ready.

When the text arrived it certainly put a damper on the day, the garage were asking for authorisation for a £850 replacement of the rear discs and pads due to corrosion. When I asked why a car with only 9000 on the clock would need new discs, it was suggested that the low mileage was the issue. My response was to query how the mileage could have a significant part to play in this issue when regardless of distance covered I hardly ever use the brakes, and the car is designed for this style of driving.

I generally drive with re-gen on high setting; except when on a trip along the motorway, one peddle driving is my preferred driving style. I generally charge the car to about 80-85% when pottering about, so regen is always available except when a trip is planned and I charge to 100%, then my brakes do get a bit of work to do for the first 30 miles or so.

I have requested the dealership to take up a warranty issue with JLR and am awaiting a response.

I collected the car and discussed the situation with the service manager, the brakes are operating within the require efficiency band, though they don't look very pretty.

The question is has anyone experience a similar issue and if I do replace the discs what stopping them from going the same way by the time of the next service?
Thanks TC
 

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Not using the brakes is the problem.

Discs are now made to be softer (as you can't use more resilient asbestos compounds in the pads). So both discs and pads are softer.

The discs rust and if the car isn't driven regularly the rust isn't rubbed off by normal breaking (compounded by regen braking not actually really doing anything to remove natural corrosion in use) which means the problem builds.

The pads (which are now softer than they used to be) also tend to break up due to penetrating damp etc if not regularly used.

I have had both these problems on ICE sports cars not driven regularly (where the replacement parts were very, very expensive).

So its not unreasonable to find this in a fairly new car, maybe you need to fully charge more to force more use of conventional brakes).
 

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bradtipp said:
Why would this not be covered under warranty?
Disc brakes and pads are wearable components and not covered under any warranty, like tyres.
 

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Using high regen will cause disc corrosion unless you brake firmly regularly, it is a regular problem with Tesla's too, mine were rust brown after just 6 weeks so changed to low regen problem solved.

Soft discs??,don't think so, discs are supposed to be standard specification, however corroded discs is a regular issue with FPace owners, if they need replacing good quality aftermarket discs will cost half as much.
 

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Delta5 said:
Using high regen will cause disc corrosion unless you brake firmly regularly, it is a regular problem with Tesla's too, mine were rust brown after just 6 weeks so changed to low regen problem solved.

Soft discs??,don't think so, discs are supposed to be standard specification, however corroded discs is a regular issue with FPace owners, if they need replacing good quality aftermarket discs will cost half as much.
Back in the days when pads were more abrasive and hard wearing the discs were designed to be a permanent fixture and unlikely to need replacement, of course they could be replaced but it was far less common. As pad designs have adapted to material regulations discs have become more wearable and considered to be a periodically replaced part rather than the lifetime part they were in the past.

Softer may not have been the right description but increased wearability definitely is.
 

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It is a known EV phenomenon due to the reasons given above. Indeed, some Volkswagen EV models have reverted to using rear drum brakes
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The information is very helpful and I can begin to understand the problem. Though I'm not sure this lets Jaguar off the hook
ICE cars don't have degenerative braking, if you design a vehicle with this feature and actively promote its use as a range extender. Then you should expect the feature to fully utilised and either compensate for any downside or make your users fully aware of any problems. I have checked through the i-guide and there isn't any information on this subject.
Thanks again for the advice if Jaguar get back to me I will post their response.
 

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I thought one of the early changes in the design period was to the braking system, to accommodate the low usage.

Also I have realised that there is no regen in reverse - so my brakes get a quick wipe every time I reverse of the drive.

One 'problem' with an EV, if your driving sensibly, to maximise range, you should be leaving a larger gap etc, thus never needing to make those sudden braking moves.

So the problem is compounded.

That said, my car with 20K on it, doesnt need any pads or discs.

Could be bad luck, could be the fine sea air in Durham?
 

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It's really not just an EV problem any modern car that is not driven that often will suffer this problem. The only difference with EVs is that you can drive them and still have issues because the conventional brakes may not be used that much.

This is why it is a good idea to fully charge from time to time so you force use of conventional brakes.
 

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I had my rear discs replaced under warranty. They were badly corroded after only 3k miles. To keep the new ones clean I select neutral and use the brakes when going down a hill near my home.
 

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My ICE rear brakes are the same. I rarely brake heavily, so the rear discs are getting corroded. Should be made from a stainless steel or non corroding alloy??
 

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I have one rear disk with a about an inch ring that is rusted , car is a year old with 6000 miles , I got it a month ago and have put around 500 miles on it I have switched to low regen to try to clear it its working to a extent but not quickly. Had discussions re this and agreed to pay for dealer to pull the pads and check they are free to move. If both disks were the same I would live with it.

I think £850 to replace pads and discs is excessive and I would baulk at that and look for an independent garage to do the work using Jaguar parts, or even better get an independent to skim the disks.

Porsche have a coated disk that you can option to prevent this at £2k, also the Taycan deactivates recuperation for a short period after standstill of more than 6 hours to ensure the disks are swept clean. That's just software ( Oh how my development teams hated me saying that) so not hard to implement perhaps Jaguar have?

My car is a MY2020
 

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It's my wife's daily, so every time I get in I hammer the brakes as I know she will never use them with her driving style!

It is a problem….. however I do think you should escalate this TC as it should be a warranty issue. Interestingly, I have just renewed my JLR extended warranty on my Discovery commercial. The pads are clearly listed as exempt items but the braking system including the disks are not. They are clearly covered against defect NOT wear and tear. I would argue this is a defect given the mileage & age cannot be a factor.

Good luck with this. I hope they do the right thing.
 

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My F pace had the corroded disc problem, JLR were initially replacing under warranty but after many claims they changed tune and refused any more under warranty.
Yes my mileage had reduced due to lockdown but I had still driven 24k over 3 years and from the picture you can see plenty of life left in the pads but the disc were severely corroded even emergency braking from high speed wouldnt remove it.

You can have your disc skimmed as a remedy but many believe the quality of the disc is the problem so would return.
In 40 years of driving these are the first disc that I have had to replace and with so many complaints it does point to quality.
I replaced with EBC disc pads 40% of the price of Original.
Possible solution plan in your normal driving routine high speed stop when safe to clean brakes regularly say at Off ramp.
https://www.fpaceforums.co.uk/download/file.php?id=8615
 

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S60r said:
The pads are clearly listed as exempt items but the braking system including the disks are not. They are clearly covered against defect NOT wear and tear. I would argue this is a defect given the mileage & age cannot be a factor.
This can't be a wear-related fault, since it's caused by lack of wear. Use logic! ;)
 

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scm said:
S60r said:
The pads are clearly listed as exempt items but the braking system including the disks are not. They are clearly covered against defect NOT wear and tear. I would argue this is a defect given the mileage & age cannot be a factor.
This can't be a wear-related fault, since it's caused by lack of wear. Use logic! ;)
Nice thinking, sadly I suspect m'learned friends would point out that simple exposure to atmospherics in itself causes wear to components. After all my house never goes anywhere but it needs to be painted every now and again ;)
 

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Exactly this conversion has come up many times since I was first on the Mk1 Leaf forum over 10 years ago.

Whether or not you are using 'high regen' the IPace will use regeneration for most of the braking.
You can see that because you still get a big swathe of green "regen" on the driver display when you are pressing the brake pedal in 'low regen' mode.
For the same amount of deceleration you get just the same amount of green "regen" in 'high regen' mode too, you just don't have to press the brake as hard (if at all).

However many people have reported that 'low regen' keeps the discs cleaner, which is a puzzle.
On the Leaf it transpired that when you pressed the brake pedal the car would first bring the pads into contact with the discs, then use regen as much as possible until, under hard braking, it would use the friction brakes too.
This improved the brake pedal feel and had the side effect of cleaning the discs.
Of course with 'high regen' you are rarely touching the brake pedal so this won't be happening.
I don't know whether the same applies to the IPace but maybe.

One of the easiest ways to clean the IPace discs is to drop it into Neutral (just hit N) when coming down a hill or off a motorway slip road.
This leaves you with only the friction brakes but be careful they are not as sharp to you might be expect.
Then once you are slowed just hit D again.
I found this quite important during rare lockdown trips to control the band of rust forming on the rear discs.
Mind I expect somebody will tell me that using Neutral is illegal or something.
 

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Oh and one other thing -
I suspect that one reason Jaguar recommend always charging to 100% is exactly this - so the friction brakes will get used a bit and thus be less prone to corrosion.
 
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