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So interesting to read this discussion. My wife was driving our I-pace last month and had an almost identical incident that resulting in the car being written off after being driven into the house opposite - again no one harmed thank goodness, but she would love to understand exactly what happened.

There is a black box in the car (JLR call it an Event Data Recorder) that stores all the critical information (speed, brake pedal and accelerator pedal position, steering etc) but it's remarkably hard to access. I spoke to a company called TRL who specialise in accident forensics and they confirmed that although the EDR exists - only JLR can access it as it requires a bespoke bit of kit (their standard Bosch interface can't read the Jag's data). There is no obvious way to even ask JLR to help out - we spoke to the dealer who had no clue, and TRL couldn't provide a contact either.

So annoying - the answer (almost certainly pressing the accelerator by mistake) is sitting on a bit of kit in a car park in Newbury waiting to be scrapped - and we can't get hold of it.




Wheel Tire Car Land vehicle Vehicle
 

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Have you tried contacting Jaguar Customer Services? They might be more helpful than a dealer.

Instant torque is a two-edged sword, glad no-one was hurt.
 

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Have you tried contacting Jaguar Customer Services? They might be more helpful than a dealer.

Instant torque is a two-edged sword, glad no-one was hurt.
Yes - the dealer suggested that also

My wife has spoken to them this morning, and they are looking into it. Will report back here if we are able to find the way to access the data
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
So interesting to read this discussion. My wife was driving our I-pace last month and had an almost identical incident that resulting in the car being written off after being driven into the house opposite - again no one harmed thank goodness, but she would love to understand exactly what happened.

There is a black box in the car (JLR call it an Event Data Recorder) that stores all the critical information (speed, brake pedal and accelerator pedal position, steering etc) but it's remarkably hard to access. I spoke to a company called TRL who specialise in accident forensics and they confirmed that although the EDR exists - only JLR can access it as it requires a bespoke bit of kit (their standard Bosch interface can't read the Jag's data). There is no obvious way to even ask JLR to help out - we spoke to the dealer who had no clue, and TRL couldn't provide a contact either.

So annoying - the answer (almost certainly pressing the accelerator by mistake) is sitting on a bit of kit in a car park in Newbury waiting to be scrapped - and we can't get hold of it.




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OH WOW so sorry about your accident but I am reassured seeing this. Watching the video clip of the Porsche about shows how they shoot off out of control. Unfortunately I ran into my sons neighbours classic Porsche and wrote it off. I did NOT PRESS THE ACELERATOR. My iPace is currently on the way to JLR Preston for investigation and Aviva are also sending a representative but I am not convinced anything will come of it. Tell you what I’m not in a hurray to get another electric car.
 

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OH WOW so sorry about your accident but I am reassured seeing this. Watching the video clip of the Porsche about shows how they shoot off out of control. Unfortunately I ran into my sons neighbours classic Porsche and wrote it off. I did NOT PRESS THE ACELERATOR. My iPace is currently on the way to JLR Preston for investigation and Aviva are also sending a representative but I am not convinced anything will come of it. Tell you what I’m not in a hurray to get another electric car.
Hi Julie - our car was insured through Aviva as well....I wonder if there is any opportunity to link the two investigations? Our car is being stored at CoParts for now pending being sold for scrap (but Aviva put a safeguard notice on it, so won't go anywhere for now) - no sign of a JLR investigation in our case. How did you get JLR involved?

Sorry about your accident also of course - and my wife's view is very similar to yours re getting another electric car. Certainly will be one without the same level of acceleration if we do
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
So interesting to read this discussion. My wife was driving our I-pace last month and had an almost identical incident that resulting in the car being written off after being driven into the house opposite - again no one harmed thank goodness, but she would love to understand exactly what happened.

There is a black box in the car (JLR call it an Event Data Recorder) that stores all the critical information (speed, brake pedal and accelerator pedal position, steering etc) but it's remarkably hard to access. I spoke to a company called TRL who specialise in accident forensics and they confirmed that although the EDR exists - only JLR can access it as it requires a bespoke bit of kit (their standard Bosch interface can't read the Jag's data). There is no obvious way to even ask JLR to help out - we spoke to the dealer who had no clue, and TRL couldn't provide a contact either.

So annoying - the answer (almost certainly pressing the accelerator by mistake) is sitting on a bit of kit in a car park in Newbury waiting to be scrapped - and we can't get hold of it.




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Hi Dave. Just to let you know my iPace investigation is booked in at JLR Preston on 3rd March, 2022
Hi Julie - thanks for the update. I contacted Amanda who's been very helpful. We also contacted JLR directly and am now waiting for them to get back to me with either a date for an engineer to go to the car, or tell me they want the car in for investigation.
 

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Another accident, it is very very disturbing indeed.

I feel that there are several features in the IPace which needs improvement:

I notice that the following are features which really increases the risk of human error in the IPace.

1. The lack of a regular gear changer lever - I am not a big fan of the push button gear selector. In my opinion, the push button gear selector has a lot of flaws
a. The gear selector does not engage as intended all the time. Sometimes I push the D button, the D does not engage. May be I did not push this push button hard enough. However there is no haptic/audible feedback to indicate that the gear has engaged. I have to look down at the button itself of the instrument cluster to confirm it has engaged and that would mean taking the eyes off the road.
b. Engaging reverse gear, the audible gong is too weak inside the car to confirm the that reverse has selected. And there is no haptic feedback for this either. With a conventional gear lever, the act of pushing the gear lever in the correct direction confirms the gear change in the human brain without the need to visual check. I have noticed that many other JLR cars now have a physical gear lever and it is time JLR puts similar levers in the IPace too. For our cars without the gear lever, I would like an audible beep confirming a gear selection, and different tone for forward, reverse and neutral.
c. In the Ipace the transmission can be changed from D to R and vice versa without pushing the brake pedal. I believe this is dangerous! The wrong direction could be engaged without the driver realising this unless they look down at the gear selector. This wrong gear selection; combined with the huge torque of the EV motors, and a small tap on the accelerator pedal, the consequences could be disastrous.

2. High regen: This issue, I think the IPace shares with all other EVs which support high regen.
Almost all of us EV drivers would have learned driving in ICE cars. The learned behaviour for a good numbers of years or even decades is to push the brake pedal to stop the car.
With high regen, one learns to do one pedal driving. In most EVs with high regen, drivers get to a habit of not having to use the brake pedal much.
However, when a emergency braking situation presents, I suspect the human brain gets a bit confused. With the 'recently' learned one pedal driving, one is used to the right foot only on the accelerator pedal. In an emergency braking situation ( sometimes even at other times), the reflex action of pushing the brake pedal down kicks in... and I believe that this leads to the accelerator pedal pushed down firmly. This combined with the enormous torque EVs can generate, one can imagine can lead to disastrous consequences.

I used to drive on high regen for a little while when I got my IPace and I loved that experience of one pedal driving. However, I accidentally pushed the accelerator pedal once instead of the brake when I was manoeuvring my car in my drive. Thankfully I didn't loose complete control and could stop the car before I hit anything. I thought a lot about this and tried to analyse what happened. )I am a medical doctor with an interest in Human factors in causation of error). My suspicion is that the change in the learned behaviour with the difference in driving style of EVs on a background of ICE driving behaviour is perhaps leading to these events.

I have my IPace on low regen now and low regen mimicks ICE driving closely on the IPace. I think this also helps when I on occasions drive my wife's ICE car.

It would be of immense help if Jag and other EV manufacturers did look at the 'black box' in their cars and analyse the data and reveal the investigation reports the public so that we can all learn from these events to decrease the chance of accidents in future. And more importantly, EV manufacturers should design systems to decrease the chance of human error leading to accidents.
 

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Be prepared for the one pedal driving fans to come and tell you how wrong you are and that you just need to get good.

I personally do not like one pedal driving and have absolutely zero issues using the actual brake pedal for actual braking. I laugh at people who try to claim that "one pedal driving is so easier", yeah cus moving my foot a few inches to the left is such a chore. :)
 

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I would also like to add that I believe these cases of sudden acceleration in EVs with one pedal driving modes, are 100% purely driver error. They are not the fault of the car, or where the gear button is. Automatic cars have for years used rotary dials or buttons for selecting gears. The difference is they still 100% relied on people using a brake pedal to brake.

The reality is that some (not all) individuals get so used to one pedal driving so much, that they lose their muscle memory for "braking". Especially in an emergency when many people enter panic mode and have to rely on muscle memory.

How many people transitioned from auto to manual gears and vice versa and had those rare or minor lapses where they "forgot" for a split second?
 

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Very much agree with GSIpace on the design of the gear shifter in the I-pace. One at least one occasion I thought I'd changed gear and hadn't - thankfully was able to stop the car quickly with no further issues, but the level of feedback is not good with the current design (a louder alert to confirm, or some form of haptic feedback (vibration) would be very useful to confirm gear engaged). In the incident above, my wife thought she had engaged reverse, but the car started moving forward - and then very likely she mistakenly pressed the accelerator instead of the brake.

Personally I think a physical stick / stalk / rotary dial would be a better design

We are still waiting for JLR to confirm access to the EDR - but like ICDP_EV I think that driver error is the likely cause. Whether or not one pedal driving was also a contributing factor I don't know - certainly it's a different style of driving but I think relatively easy to adapt to...although in an emergency situation old habits will die hard.

ICDP_EV - you say that you believe these incidents are driver error. I agree that that is almost certainly the primary cause, but (as GSIpace says) it's also down to the designers of these vehicles to reduce the chances of driver error occurring (or create safeguards if it does) - and I do think that there are design issues with the I-pace (and maybe EVs more generally) that create an unforgiving environment for drivers in certain circumstance.
 

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I would also like to add that I believe these cases of sudden acceleration in EVs with one pedal driving modes, are 100% purely driver error. They are not the fault of the car, or where the gear button is.
The only fault of the car is providing maximum torque from a standstill - a USP of EVs.
 

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Very much agree with GSIpace on the design of the gear shifter in the I-pace. One at least one occasion I thought I'd changed gear and hadn't - thankfully was able to stop the car quickly with no further issues, but the level of feedback is not good with the current design (a louder alert to confirm, or some form of haptic feedback (vibration) would be very useful to confirm gear engaged). In the incident above, my wife thought she had engaged reverse, but the car started moving forward - and then very likely she mistakenly pressed the accelerator instead of the brake.

Personally I think a physical stick / stalk / rotary dial would be a better design

We are still waiting for JLR to confirm access to the EDR - but like ICDP_EV I think that driver error is the likely cause. Whether or not one pedal driving was also a contributing factor I don't know - certainly it's a different style of driving but I think relatively easy to adapt to...although in an emergency situation old habits will die hard.

ICDP_EV - you say that you believe these incidents are driver error. I agree that that is almost certainly the primary cause, but (as GSIpace says) it's also down to the designers of these vehicles to reduce the chances of driver error occurring (or create safeguards if it does) - and I do think that there are design issues with the I-pace (and maybe EVs more generally) that create an unforgiving environment for drivers in certain circumstance.
I do agree that some designs are very poor in their layout. Though I would defy anyone who has been driving for years to deny that they haven't selected the wrong gear on occasion. This is not exclusive to ICE cars or EVs and does not matter if the gear select are manual, button, dials or automatics. In fact I would be so bold as to say, show me someone who says they have never selected the wrong gear while driving and I will show you a liar. I believe (purely anecdotal) that it is worse in EVs because of the more rapid response and increased torgue. It is potentially exacerbated even more by the fact people lose the normal brake pedal muscle memory.

So when it does happen it tends to be far more dramatic in an EV. Espcially one with the power of an I-Pace.
 

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The only fault of the car is providing maximum torque from a standstill - a USP of EVs.
Agreed. Though most of the EVs I have driven have the option of eco or comfort and it reduces throttle response which mostly cures the problem. In my E-Tron setting driving mode to eco drastically reduces throttle respone during the initial 50% of throttle.

I test drove a Mach-E and the dealer had it set to "untamed" mode. It was stupidly responsive for normal driving and I actually told him to turn it to comfort because it was too much. He turned it down and the car behaved perfectly well. When I test drove the I-Pace I gave my wife a warning I was going to test acceleration. She still gave off to me when the I-Pace pinned us both into our seats. She also thought the Q4 we tested with 8.5 seconds 0-60, was perfectly fast enough.

I did think the I-Pace was very smart not to allow the car to be started without the brake being pushed. This was lucky because my wife who is not used to automatics, had the throttle on full when trying to start the car for her test drive.

So as you say many EV manufacturers sell the instant torgue as a USP and heaven forbid anyone would dare to want it turned down. It is not helped when reviewers get all annoyed that an EV "only" does 0-60 mph in 8 seconds. For the vast majority of people an family car with sub 10 seconds 0-60mph times is perfectly adequate.
 
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