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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I did a trip on Friday that involved some fairly narrow roads and villages with lines of parked cars to squeeze past.

It was dark and I found myself keeping further from the nearside of the road and and the lines of cars than I would normally do. I was being overly cautious. I tried to analyse why I was doing this and eventually came to the conclusion that it was the steering feel that was giving me a lack of confidence.

Turning the steering wheel to make minor direction adjustments I could feel it trying to resist the change. It felt a bit like having a fast spinning toy gyroscope in your hand and trying to twist it on its axis... the harder you twist the more it resists. I tried a few deliberate small changes and the feeling of resistance was unmistakable and always there.

I didn't feel confident that I could place the car with total precision, so was giving the side of the road and other cars a wide berth.

Wondering about the cause I started to think about the return trip to Manchester airport I'd done a week or so previously. On that trip I'd had no such issues and thoroughly enjoyed every aspect of driving the car.

So what was different? The only thing I could think of was that I'd put the car into low regen mode in the belief it would maximise range on the long motorway sections. Surely it couldn't have anything to do with that? Well, try it anyway...

In low regen mode the steering was transformed! The feeling of resistance was completely gone. I tried some more deliberate small changes of direction and found it was simplicity itself to place the car with total confidence.

In addition the car felt more settled on the road; less fidgety and with a stronger feeling of just gliding along effortlessly.

So I left it in low regen mode. And then I noticed something perhaps even more remarkable. It was a very cold day and for the whole journey I'd been hovering around a pretty lacklustre 46 kWh/100 miles. The consumption was dropping like a stone; I only had seven miles to go, but by the time I got home it had dropped to 43 kWh/100 miles.

Is it possible the car has better economy in low regen mode? I'll need to do some more tests, but I can well believe it. There are just so many occasions when you can keep it coasting with zero consumption or light regen. On the approach to roundabouts and closing on slower traffic... it is amazing what you can achieve with a little anticipation.

Further tests aside, I can tell you that I'm already a convert, but would be most interested in other members thoughts.
 

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Yes it is definitely possible that low regen is better for range.
Actually it's most likely to be best. Low regen and coasting is giving best range for all EVs I've owned/tested.
 
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Depends on your driving style... If you naturally drive with very little use of the brakes, then I think low regen can definitely be beneficial to economy, but if you find yourself using the brakes more as a result of transferring from high regen to low regen, you will not see any benefit, and may get worse consumption.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
mjc said:
Depends on your driving style... If you naturally drive with very little use of the brakes, then I think low regen can definitely be beneficial to economy, but if you find yourself using the brakes more as a result of transferring from high regen to low regen, you will not see any benefit, and may get worse consumption.
Inevitably you have to use the brakes more and especially around town and in traffic. You can't coast all the way to a halt at every roundabout; at least not if you want to avoid annoying the hell out of following traffic!

But I believe the first part of the brake pedal's travel is all regen? The economy gauge certainly dives into heavy regen as you press the pedal. So maybe you are recovering nearly as much energy as high regen mode would have done? Plus you are getting 100% benefit from your momentum for every metre you coast.
 
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mikew said:
mjc said:
Depends on your driving style... If you naturally drive with very little use of the brakes, then I think low regen can definitely be beneficial to economy, but if you find yourself using the brakes more as a result of transferring from high regen to low regen, you will not see any benefit, and may get worse consumption.
Inevitably you have to use the brakes more and especially around town and in traffic. You can't coast all the way to a halt at every roundabout; at least not if you want to avoid annoying the hell out of following traffic!

But I believe the first part of the brake pedal's travel is all regen? The economy gauge certainly dives into heavy regen as you press the pedal. So maybe you are recovering nearly as much energy as high regen mode would have done? Plus you are getting 100% benefit from your momentum for every metre you coast.
You are correct. I must admit that I have not yet tried the high regen on my car (although I used that extensively at Millbrook). Loving the way the car drives on low regen, and needing to remember to use the brake when coming to a full stop - to prevent rolling back. :D :shock:
 

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mikew said:
Is it possible the car has better economy in low regen mode? I'll need to do some more tests, but I can well believe it. There are just so many occasions when you can keep it coasting with zero consumption or light regen. On the approach to roundabouts and closing on slower traffic... it is amazing what you can achieve with a little anticipation.

Further tests aside, I can tell you that I'm already a convert, but would be most interested in other members thoughts.
I've been driving in low-regen-mode from the beginning.
Other EV's like nissan leaf have shown that low-regen has better economy than high regen, and I think for rather obvious reasons:

imagine two more or less identical scenario's:
- assuming city-traffic
- two i-paces, one in high regen (1) other in low (2).
- same distance, say 400 m travel.
- energy is what counts, not time

Car (1) travels at "cruise-speed" for say 350 m. After that accelerator is released, and high regen kicks in.
Car (2) travels at "cruise-speed" for say 200 m. After that accelerator is released, and low-regen kicks in.

Energy consumption / waste:
Car (1 AND 2): 400 m of rolling resistance, assume constant over the distance travelled (so can be discarded)
Car (1) has higher air resistance, as it is traveling for a longer distance at high "cruise-speed", and uses more energy than car (1)

As high regen can not be 100% efficient car (1) has to use more energy than car (2).

Other thoughts about it?

Other than economic driving, it gives a more stable driving (less car-sickness), and you don't have your braking lights behaving like a stroboscope..

Also in low-regen you don't have to use your brakes that often, as you plan ahead and try to read the road/traffic.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Bart said:
mikew said:
Is it possible the car has better economy in low regen mode? I'll need to do some more tests, but I can well believe it. There are just so many occasions when you can keep it coasting with zero consumption or light regen. On the approach to roundabouts and closing on slower traffic... it is amazing what you can achieve with a little anticipation.

Further tests aside, I can tell you that I'm already a convert, but would be most interested in other members thoughts.
I've been driving in low-regen-mode from the beginning.
Other EV's like nissan leaf have shown that low-regen has better economy than high regen, and I think for rather obvious reasons:

imagine two more or less identical scenario's:
- assuming city-traffic
- two i-paces, one in high regen (1) other in low (2).
- same distance, say 400 m travel.
- energy is what counts, not time

Car (1) travels at "cruise-speed" for say 350 m. After that accelerator is released, and high regen kicks in.
Car (2) travels at "cruise-speed" for say 200 m. After that accelerator is released, and low-regen kicks in.

Energy consumption / waste:
Car (1 AND 2): 400 m of rolling resistance, assume constant over the distance travelled (so can be discarded)
Car (1) has higher air resistance, as it is traveling for a longer distance at high "cruise-speed", and uses more energy than car (1)

As high regen can not be 100% efficient car (1) has to use more energy than car (2).

Other thoughts about it?

Other than economic driving, it gives a more stable driving (less car-sickness), and you don't have your braking lights behaving like a stroboscope..

Also in low-regen you don't have to use your brakes that often, as you plan ahead and try to read the road/traffic.
Thanks Bart, I agree completely with your reasoning.

But what about the steering resistance in high regen mode? Any ideas on where that is coming from? My feeling is that it is concerned with how the front motor is behaving.
 

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FENorway said:
Yes it is definitely possible that low regen is better for range.
Actually it's most likely to be best. Low regen and coasting is giving best range for all EVs I've owned/tested.
Agreed. I drive my Outlander pretty well all the time using the regen (5 levels via flappy paddles). You hardly need to touch the brakes.
But... (there is always one isn't there?) you do tend to notice the terrain a lot more.
Going along the A281 from Guildford to Horsham will use a different amount of battery that going the other way. Northbound and apart from the uphill section at Bucks Green is more economic that the other direction especially the section from Bucks Green to Horsham. Yes I know the road very well (I used to work at Dunsfold).
The Hogs Back (A31) is the same. East to West is far, far more economical than West to East. That's easy as you are slowly climbing towards Guildford...
That's why I'd love to have contours in SatNav mapping/ route planners. That would allow some complicated maths to work out the energy cost of different routes. With EV's, it is not all about distance. You have to consider terrain as well.
 

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If braking is firstly regen anyway then I'd prefer low regen mode and to be able control braking and therefore the amount of regen myself in realtime. Tried low regent mode on motorway as in high regen mode the car felt it was lurching between coasting, accelerating and braking. Will try low regent for a while.
 

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When we went on the public roads from the Millbrook circuit we tried high regen which as a passenger made me feel a little car sick. Normally I don't suffer with that ever! :cry:
 

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Just tried hlow regen at the begining then switched to low regen for my every days work commit. But reading that, I ll try low regen again, specially next week end when I ll do at 300km highway trip for Christmas. Will try if the landlord assist feels better then . But u know even in high regen u can deactivate it so the car goes exactly where u want.
 

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It's going to depend on anticipation - I have just lost use of an i3 after three years and 38k miles. I think the regen on that (non-selectable) was more similar to iPace high regen than low. If concentrating, anticipation with high regen means that you don't treat the accelerator as an on/off button but release pressure slowly - so not automatically less efficient (though it could well be if you don't drive smoothly). But the higher level of regeneration must give you more choice with one pedal driving - though that does not of course mean that a fallible human with more choice uses it wisely
 

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It seems that the name "Regen braking High/Low" is misleading as one gets regen braking (if there is battery capacity to store recovered energy) from both lifting off throttle or from initial brake pedal operation. So perhaps the setting should be called "Single pedal operation on/off". Even this isn't strictly accurate but a bit more relevant.

Some people like being able to train their right foot to accelerate by pushing, coasting by partially lifting and applying most everyday slowing down by lifting more fully. This single pedal operation becomes a possibility in hybrids and EVs which is new but not necessarily right or wrong. Interestingly the new Leaf takes it one step further by actually applying the mechanical brakes to stop the car on lifting completely off the accelerator.

I sometimes wonder if drivers who move to this single pedal operation might lose their instinct to hit the brake pedal when a real emergency stop is called for? Even a slight hesitation due to less familiarity might be critical?
 

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After today, I'm convinced that low regen is a good way to extend your i-Pace range.

But I have more fun in Dynamic with Max Regen. At least you get a choice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
mbird said:
I sometimes wonder if drivers who move to this single pedal operation might lose their instinct to hit the brake pedal when a real emergency stop is called for? Even a slight hesitation due to less familiarity might be critical?
I think that is a really great point and one I hope I'll never be caught out by! Only time will tell.

Based on my own limited experience, and input from others, I'm now coming round to the view that low regen offers improved economy for anyone prepared to put some real effort into driving intelligently.

Although I brought range into my original post, my real interest is the difference in the steering feel and general balance of the car in high vs. low regen. A difference I've experienced, but was not expecting.

I'd be interested to know if anyone else has experienced anything similar. Or is it just me and/or my car?
 

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mikew said:
mbird said:
I sometimes wonder if drivers who move to this single pedal operation might lose their instinct to hit the brake pedal when a real emergency stop is called for? Even a slight hesitation due to less familiarity might be critical?
I think that is a really great point and one I hope I'll never be caught out by! Only time will tell.

Based on my own limited experience, and input from others, I'm now coming round to the view that low regen offers improved economy for anyone prepared to put some real effort into driving intelligently.

Although I brought range into my original post, my real interest is the difference in the steering feel and general balance of the car in high vs. low regen. A difference I've experienced, but was not expecting.

I'd be interested to know if anyone else has experienced anything similar. Or is it just me and/or my car?
Hi Mikew, Is it possible that the steering effect is caused by the lane-keep system trying to take over?
 

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I expect that part of the question is "How do you drive" when in "High Regen"? Assuming that there is a High Regen accelerator "pedal point" that is equivalent to "coasting" and that you try to find that point and let the car do a long slow down (like it was coasting) when you see a red light ahead in the distance, it should be about the same. If you single pedal drive by driving "at speed" up close to the red light and then rapidly letting off the pedal so you decelerate "hard", then you'll get worse economy ... for the reasons outlined above.
 

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mikew said:
mbird said:
I sometimes wonder if drivers who move to this single pedal operation might lose their instinct to hit the brake pedal when a real emergency stop is called for? Even a slight hesitation due to less familiarity might be critical?
I think that is a really great point and one I hope I'll never be caught out by! Only time will tell.

Based on my own limited experience, and input from others, I'm now coming round to the view that low regen offers improved economy for anyone prepared to put some real effort into driving intelligently.

Although I brought range into my original post, my real interest is the difference in the steering feel and general balance of the car in high vs. low regen. A difference I've experienced, but was not expecting.

I'd be interested to know if anyone else has experienced anything similar. Or is it just me and/or my car?
Juste tried low regen for my work trip and I think u right, the steering wheel feels better in this mode. Less hard and less ping pong on roads.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Thincat said:
mikew said:
mbird said:
I sometimes wonder if drivers who move to this single pedal operation might lose their instinct to hit the brake pedal when a real emergency stop is called for? Even a slight hesitation due to less familiarity might be critical?
I think that is a really great point and one I hope I'll never be caught out by! Only time will tell.

Based on my own limited experience, and input from others, I'm now coming round to the view that low regen offers improved economy for anyone prepared to put some real effort into driving intelligently.

Although I brought range into my original post, my real interest is the difference in the steering feel and general balance of the car in high vs. low regen. A difference I've experienced, but was not expecting.

I'd be interested to know if anyone else has experienced anything similar. Or is it just me and/or my car?
Hi Mikew, Is it possible that the steering effect is caused by the lane-keep system trying to take over?
Thanks Thincat, I thought about that too and I've switched it off. Certainly I have had it kick in at inappropriate times and worried about it maybe affecting range. Though I still think there is a difference in steering feel solely down to the two regen modes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Tophe74 said:
mikew said:
mbird said:
I sometimes wonder if drivers who move to this single pedal operation might lose their instinct to hit the brake pedal when a real emergency stop is called for? Even a slight hesitation due to less familiarity might be critical?
I think that is a really great point and one I hope I'll never be caught out by! Only time will tell.

Based on my own limited experience, and input from others, I'm now coming round to the view that low regen offers improved economy for anyone prepared to put some real effort into driving intelligently.

Although I brought range into my original post, my real interest is the difference in the steering feel and general balance of the car in high vs. low regen. A difference I've experienced, but was not expecting.

I'd be interested to know if anyone else has experienced anything similar. Or is it just me and/or my car?
Juste tried low regen for my work trip and I think u right, the steering wheel feels better in this mode. Less hard and less ping pong on roads.
Thanks Tophe74, good to hear it's not just me!
 
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