Real 100 kW software update via Jaguar dealer (Fastned announcement)

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MartijnEV
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Re: Real 100 kW software update via Jaguar dealer (Fastned announcement)

Post by MartijnEV » Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:42 am

Billy Bunter wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:10 am
when there is talk of a “Fastned/ABB 100kW update”, is this confirmed as a software update to the iPace software or to the Charge Station software (as we know that the chargers recognise the car type) ?
This specifically refers to a new software update to the I-Pace that will enable 100kW on ABB/Fastned chargers. We are still waiting for this software to be released for the I-Pace. (The work on the ABB/Fastned side has already been done; they also needed to update the software in their chargers, but that part seems to be completed now).
Billy Bunter wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:10 am
Of course there must be some recognition by the car of the type of charger, but I’m a bit surprised to hear of software embedded in the iPace that is specific to 1 brand of fast charger.......

Anybody have further info on how this is done ?
The car does not recognize the charger manufacturer and/or specific model as such, it only sees Voltage, Amps, and a lot of data value pairs.

There are however - as I have understood - quite some differences, depending on the charger manufacturer & model, in the way the car and the charger communicate with each other. Hence the cause why I-Pace on some charger brands is already charging 100kW successfully and on others not yet. The difference in communication seems to be related to which parameters are exchanged between charger and car, in which frequency, and which responses are programmed in the charger and/or car based on certain values or limits in those data sets. This seems to differ significantly enough between charger manufacturers to cause the fact that the ultra fast charging experience is not yet similar on each and every charger. This WILL be resolved however, as software on both sides is now being fine tuned by all manufacturers involved the game. This problem is by the way not only related to I-Pace, also all other electric vehicles that charge on CCS faster than 50kW have issues (yes, even e-tron, e-Niro and Tesla Model 3!). And at the same time it is not only related to ABB but also to other charger manufacturer's products (I will not name them).

But again: this all will for sure be resolved.

(I have the impression based on all the facts learned so far that the CCS HPC (50kW+) specs were released too soon a couple of years ago by the CCS committee, and that they are now in the process of fixing the (protocol-) damage done...)
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i-Pace S, Fuji White, panorama roof, 18” wheels, heated seats, interior ioniser, front fog lights
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Bart
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Re: Real 100 kW software update via Jaguar dealer (Fastned announcement)

Post by Bart » Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:48 pm

Bottomline: unfortunately CCS is anything but standard..
Corris Grey, Black Exterior Pack, 20" 5-split spoke 5070, Air-suspension, HUD, DAB+,
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SammyD
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Re: Real 100 kW software update via Jaguar dealer (Fastned announcement)

Post by SammyD » Tue Mar 19, 2019 2:25 pm

Bart wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:48 pm
Bottomline: unfortunately CCS is anything but standard..
CCS === Confusing Car Silly
and a host of others.

Standards are there to be bent, abused, broken and even totally ignored at will. :lol:
Driving "Hirundo Rustica" since 15th Mar 2019. Lovely Jubbly :D :D
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McRat
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Re: Real 100 kW software update via Jaguar dealer (Fastned announcement)

Post by McRat » Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:57 pm

Conjecture:

If you look at your NAV menu under selecting what kind chargers it will report, you will notice it's highest value is 200 amps. There is no "More than 200 amps, 500vdc or higher.

This is interesting. 200 amps won't ever get to 100 kW in a 108 serial lithium battery since they peak at 4.2v a cell defined by chemistry. That's 454vdc. You COULD hit 91kW but you can't charge at 200 amps on a full battery.

So until the I-Pace is allowed to draw more than 200 amps, you are not going to see 100kW no matter what. Our limit is apparently at 84kW, which surprisingly is 1C charging rate. This is a common sustained C rate for the LG Chem cells. If you bring it to 1.2C, you end up with just over 100kW. So I'm guessing JLR has been unlocking the battery controller to 250 amps for certain cars. If JLR capped it at 200a like their instruments say, nothing ABB can do will raise the charge rate.

250a x 400vdc is 100kW... Coincidence? Tests have shown about 105 kW spike, 103 avg in the <50% SOC. Instrument variation of 3% or heat losses would explain it.
2019 I-Pace FE
2019 & 2017 Chevrolet Volts
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FENorway
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Re: Real 100 kW software update via Jaguar dealer (Fastned announcement)

Post by FENorway » Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:29 pm

McRat wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:57 pm
Conjecture:

If you look at your NAV menu under selecting what kind chargers it will report, you will notice it's highest value is 200 amps. There is no "More than 200 amps, 500vdc or higher.
In this menu you can also choose the system to only show Chademo-chargers. :D
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McRat
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Re: Real 100 kW software update via Jaguar dealer (Fastned announcement)

Post by McRat » Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:47 pm

FENorway wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:29 pm
McRat wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:57 pm
Conjecture:

If you look at your NAV menu under selecting what kind chargers it will report, you will notice it's highest value is 200 amps. There is no "More than 200 amps, 500vdc or higher.
In this menu you can also choose the system to only show Chademo-chargers. :D
There are SO many bugs in that NAV charging station finder that I'm considering calling an exterminator. It claims the fastest DCFC near my house is actually a Petrol Station. I can park RIGHT IN FRONT of a ChargePoint (a JLR partner) DCFC that I've used in the past and it can't see it.
It CAN see a DCFC that isn't completed yet though.

IIRC, there is a pick for Tesla chargers too! Thank goodness I have a Tesla destination-charging adapter. But somehow I don't think JLR knows those exist. They are sort of gray market devices.
2019 I-Pace FE
2019 & 2017 Chevrolet Volts
24.2 kW self-installed 480v 3-ph solar array


Billy Bunter
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Re: Real 100 kW software update via Jaguar dealer (Fastned announcement)

Post by Billy Bunter » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:53 pm

MartijnEV wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:42 am
Billy Bunter wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:10 am
when there is talk of a “Fastned/ABB 100kW update”, is this confirmed as a software update to the iPace software or to the Charge Station software (as we know that the chargers recognise the car type) ?
This specifically refers to a new software update to the I-Pace that will enable 100kW on ABB/Fastned chargers. We are still waiting for this software to be released for the I-Pace. (The work on the ABB/Fastned side has already been done; they also needed to update the software in their chargers, but that part seems to be completed now).
Billy Bunter wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:10 am
Of course there must be some recognition by the car of the type of charger, but I’m a bit surprised to hear of software embedded in the iPace that is specific to 1 brand of fast charger.......

Anybody have further info on how this is done ?
The car does not recognize the charger manufacturer and/or specific model as such, it only sees Voltage, Amps, and a lot of data value pairs.

There are however - as I have understood - quite some differences, depending on the charger manufacturer & model, in the way the car and the charger communicate with each other. Hence the cause why I-Pace on some charger brands is already charging 100kW successfully and on others not yet. The difference in communication seems to be related to which parameters are exchanged between charger and car, in which frequency, and which responses are programmed in the charger and/or car based on certain values or limits in those data sets. This seems to differ significantly enough between charger manufacturers to cause the fact that the ultra fast charging experience is not yet similar on each and every charger. This WILL be resolved however, as software on both sides is now being fine tuned by all manufacturers involved the game. This problem is by the way not only related to I-Pace, also all other electric vehicles that charge on CCS faster than 50kW have issues (yes, even e-tron, e-Niro and Tesla Model 3!). And at the same time it is not only related to ABB but also to other charger manufacturer's products (I will not name them).

But again: this all will for sure be resolved.

(I have the impression based on all the facts learned so far that the CCS HPC (50kW+) specs were released too soon a couple of years ago by the CCS committee, and that they are now in the process of fixing the (protocol-) damage done...)
thanks Martijn, your standards & protocol clarification explains a lot that should have been obvious for me but I somehow hadn’t considered that the protocols allowed variation in detailed parameters. Of course It’s obvious now, so thank you for your clear explanation.... appreciated.
SE, Firenze Red, Black Pack & Black 20” wheels, Air Suspention, HUD, ACC, DAB+


Flip
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Re: Real 100 kW software update via Jaguar dealer (Fastned announcement)

Post by Flip » Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:54 pm

Any already had a 100kw charge? This announcement is now nearly a month old. But don’t read any activity about this anymore on the forum. Is that because we are all happy and set and all are charging the first 50% on this speed, or is it still like how it was since we bought the car 6months.

I am asking this since I wanted to know if I need to visit the dealer for an update to make this work before my trip in 3 weeks.


Goshdarnit
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Re: Real 100 kW software update via Jaguar dealer (Fastned announcement)

Post by Goshdarnit » Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:23 pm

Somebody posted a pic of an ionity charge they did at 100 kw.


emgf
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Location: Paris

Re: Real 100 kW software update via Jaguar dealer (Fastned announcement)

Post by emgf » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:11 pm

Goshdarnit wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:23 pm
Somebody posted a pic of an ionity charge they did at 100 kw.
Yes he actually got 120KW , but it does not work for everyone : with the latest software H159v4 , i got only an average of 60KW from SoC 21% to
SoC 91% ( the peak was 98% charge at SoC 49% . It lasted until 50% ) . The charging station was a brand new 350KW Ionity supercharger.

290AED2D-78C1-4B5D-A25F-842870C33C4E.jpeg

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