8% range increase and 107kW charging imminent?

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fa147
Posts: 632
Joined: Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:25 pm
Location: London / United Kingdom

Re: 8% range increase and 107kW charging imminent?

Post by fa147 » Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:00 pm

Blueboy wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:25 pm
As long as the cars are constantly improved and not made rapidly out of date I don't mind. It is a fantastic car and I do not regret my purchase.
:thumbsup:
I-Pace MY20 HSE, Corris Grey, Ebony/Ebony Interior, 20” Grey & Diamond Turned, Panoramic Roof
IMC: S19B_19.40.4-436082 | Telematics: 16.2 | Map 8.30.100.156


SK1973
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:55 pm
Location: Germany

Re: 8% range increase and 107kW charging imminent?

Post by SK1973 » Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:13 pm

Maybe a language issue, but I do not understand the following paragraph in the shared posting. Could someone pls help and explain what this is about and what the gain will be once the balancing algorithm is improved? What does ‚charge the charging cable‘ mean. Does the car stop charging too early? Thx
- To fully replenish the battery, the battery must be given the necessary time to balance the cells. You can 'lose' more kWh if you charge the charging cable too early even when the car reports to be full. Smarter balancing algorithms are being worked on to reduce this 'problem'.<br/>
This is correct, it is something that most electric car manufacturers work with and there will be ongoing optimizations via SOTA.<br/>
SE 2020, corris grey, ebony, winter pack, driver assist pack 2, 20“ style 6007
InControl S19B_19.40.4-436082


SteveA
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Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:50 pm
Location: UK

Re: 8% range increase and 107kW charging imminent?

Post by SteveA » Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:19 pm

SK1973 wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 7:13 pm
Maybe a language issue, but I do not understand the following paragraph in the shared posting. Could someone pls help and explain what this is about and what the gain will be once the balancing algorithm is improved? What does ‚charge the charging cable‘ mean. Does the car stop charging too early? Thx
- To fully replenish the battery, the battery must be given the necessary time to balance the cells. You can 'lose' more kWh if you charge the charging cable too early even when the car reports to be full. Smarter balancing algorithms are being worked on to reduce this 'problem'.<br/>
This is correct, it is something that most electric car manufacturers work with and there will be ongoing optimizations via SOTA.<br/>
I assumed that was an error and should have said "remove the charging cable too early".
I Pace EV400 SE, Yulong white, options: Oyster leather, 20' wheels, MY19, delivered 03/2019
InControl: S19B_19.40.4-436082 | Telematics: Version not showing


SK1973
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:55 pm
Location: Germany

Re: 8% range increase and 107kW charging imminent?

Post by SK1973 » Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:05 pm

Okay, thx!
Still sounds a little mysterious to me. As if the car was not fully in control of the charging level of each individual cell and as a consequence reports a fully charged battery / drivers disconnect the cable while a subset of cells still requires some charging?

On the range / eco mode, I find the current implementation of eco mode quite soft in terms of driving dynamics. Would find it interesting if a more radical eco mode, maybe switching two engines off, reducing power to say 150hp etc, would make the car go a significantly longer range?
SE 2020, corris grey, ebony, winter pack, driver assist pack 2, 20“ style 6007
InControl S19B_19.40.4-436082


Goshdarnit
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Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:55 pm
Location: UK

Re: 8% range increase and 107kW charging imminent?

Post by Goshdarnit » Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:09 pm

SK1973 wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:05 pm
Okay, thx!
Still sounds a little mysterious to me. As if the car was not fully in control of the charging level of each individual cell and as a consequence reports a fully charged battery / drivers disconnect the cable while a subset of cells still requires some charging?

On the range / eco mode, I find the current implementation of eco mode quite soft in terms of driving dynamics. Would find it interesting if a more radical eco mode, maybe switching two engines off, reducing power to say 150hp etc, would make the car go a significantly longer range?
It’s not so much that. It’s that after it gets to 100% the car goes through a process to balance all the individual battery cells. The car is charged to 100% but the balancing is still drawing power. Basically, if you want the cells to balance you just leave it plugged in until the dashboard or app stops saying “charging” and go to the grey “charge complete” image.

Every EV does this balancing process, it’s not just an I-Pace thing.


gt03raf
Posts: 86
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:24 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Re: 8% range increase and 107kW charging imminent?

Post by gt03raf » Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:19 pm

Captain.Plummet wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 6:50 am
Maybe it’s because I’m driving in the UK and longer round trips don’t exceed 300 miles or so, but on my rapid charging stops I usually only need an extra 50-80 miles. 100kW charging means that those stops can be very short, not much longer than a fossil fuel stop including a visit to the loo and buying a take away coffee. Perhaps those situations are where 100kW is most useful providing it doesn’t involve a single visit fee per IONITY’s model in which case it only makes sense to fill up.
im luck and live in Milton Keynes. i visit the Ionity 2-3 times a week.
its the only charging i use and due to the flat fee i also sit there to at least 97%
MY20 Corris Grey HSE, Oyster Seats, Panoramic Roof, 20" Black Gloss Wheels


Chewy
Posts: 1904
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:46 pm
Location: Forest of Dean. UK.

Re: 8% range increase and 107kW charging imminent?

Post by Chewy » Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:41 pm

SK1973 wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:05 pm
Okay, thx!
Still sounds a little mysterious to me. As if the car was not fully in control of the charging level of each individual cell and as a consequence reports a fully charged battery / drivers disconnect the cable while a subset of cells still requires some charging?

On the range / eco mode, I find the current implementation of eco mode quite soft in terms of driving dynamics. Would find it interesting if a more radical eco mode, maybe switching two engines off, reducing power to say 150hp etc, would make the car go a significantly longer range?

The I-Pace, unlike any of the Tesla models available, has two highly efficient Permanent Magnet Synchronous Motors. Both these motors have identical efficiency (>95%), from about 18mph to 85mph, under light or heavy loading. There is absolutely no advantage to switching one of the motor off and putting all the power through the other motor.

Tesla use at least one, and in older EVs two, relatively inefficient Asynchronous Motors (these are also inherently more difficult to cool as well). Asynchronous motors become more efficient the more load they are under (but will never be as efficient as a good PM Motor). As such, when one motor is able produce enough power for the car, it is more efficient to turn off the other motor and transfer all the power to just one motor - this is precisely what Tesla do.

At any constant speed (on a flat road) the car will need a fixed amount of power to remain at that speed, ECO mode makes no difference in that case. When the car is accelerating, that is where ECO mode can play it's part with reduced pedal response, which would effectively cut power output. ECO mode will also play around with the HVAC to reduce its power consumption. If you can, turning off the HVAC system and using heated seats and a heated stearing wheel will save energy.

Tesla did have a mode called Chill, this reduced acceleration from barmy to about 8 seconds for 0 to 60mph. It was mainly put in to help people that suffered from seasick effects that instant rapid and silent acceleration caused. As a side effect, the reduction in acceleration improved range - though most Tesla EVs don't really have an issue with range (or charging).


qqiao
Posts: 201
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:29 pm
Location: United States / NJ

Re: 8% range increase and 107kW charging imminent?

Post by qqiao » Sun Oct 13, 2019 9:08 pm

One thing I might add to Chewy's explanation is that another reason to not turn off a PM motor is that they can't free roll anyway. The magnets are permanent, so rotating magnets in the rotors will inevitably generate a current in the stator coils.

Induction motors on the other hand, the magnetic field in the rotors are generated by induced current in the rotor coils, so if you switch off the stator coils, they are perfectly happy to free roll.

So in the case of the Tesla drive train, they can have the PM do the driving, and have the induction one just free roll.

In the i-Paces case, that is impossible, either you drive the PM motor, or it is regenerating.
2019 IPace FE. Corris grey exterior. Oyster white interior.
S19B_19.40.4-436082/14.2


SK1973
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:55 pm
Location: Germany

Re: 8% range increase and 107kW charging imminent?

Post by SK1973 » Sun Oct 13, 2019 9:16 pm

Thx so much for the responses, very insightful!

Fantastic forum!
SE 2020, corris grey, ebony, winter pack, driver assist pack 2, 20“ style 6007
InControl S19B_19.40.4-436082


DougTheMac
Posts: 367
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:50 pm
Location: Suffolk UK

Re: 8% range increase and 107kW charging imminent?

Post by DougTheMac » Sun Oct 13, 2019 9:17 pm

Chewy, you seem to be saying that a “stronger” eco mode would have little effect on range, because the energy requirements at a given speed don’t change. While this is true, surely your own track record and driving technique recommendations demonstrate that “gentle” driving improves range significantly? It requires a great deal of skill and self-restraint to minimise the losses caused by the inevitable acceleration “noise” of a high-performance EV. Personally, I’m convinced that a very heavily restricted eco mode, with maybe the equivalent acceleration of a 20s 0-60 time, and heavily damped response to minor throttle movements, would significantly improve range. The existing eco mode doesn’t seem to do much at all.
HSE Silicon Silver Pano Air+AD Oyster since 1Mar19
S19B_19.40.4-436082 & anon


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