Battery advice.

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Captain.Plummet
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Battery advice.

Post by Captain.Plummet » Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:00 am

The dealer replacement cost for an I Pace battery is £37,500, according to my service centre who have recently supplied and fitted one. I’m a quarter of the way there already which means that, assuming that I haven’t changed the car, the battery warranty will be up by the spring of 2021.
This rather alarming prospect led me to a conversation with an EV battery management system designer. His advice was to rapid DC charge as little as possible and never to 100%. In the case of the I Pace it is apparently all about cell balancing and manufacturing tolerances where discrepancies of as little as 4mV make a big difference to range and longevity. For this reason one I Pace could go further and last longer than another.
He recommended to use the car’s onboard charger whenever possible and to charge using that to 100%, leaving the charger connected at 100% whilst the car’s electronics optimise the cells.
This advice resonates with our policy at work. We use a lot of Lithium polymer batteries in our products which we slow charge to preserve battery performance and keep them on management charge for as long as possible. It also seems to be working for my car which, at 20,000 miles is still managing 230 miles in this freezing weather. I virtually never rapid charge as I am fortunate to have 7KWh AC charge points at home, work and at my main destinations.

Concerns over battery deterioration at high rates of DC charging is the main reason for delaying the release of the range update. Customer obsession with ultra rapid charging and the charging rates being offered by competitors is pushing Jaguar hard, but the reality is that it will lead to batteries that are badly degraded in the long term. This applies not only to Jaguar EV’s but to those of other manufacturers of course.

The best advice is to use the onboard charger where possible and, when necessary, restrict DC charging to 90% SOC on 50KWh charge points. Avoid 100KWh charging, at least until there is more long term data available.

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Bart
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Re: Battery advice.

Post by Bart » Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:15 am

This is really interesting food for thought. Although I drove some long distance trips I don't really see the need for 100kW+ charging capabilities. About 84 kW at Ionity / Fastned is fast enough for me. Only add/charge what you need at a fastcharger to reach your destination.

Read the tesla-fora about altered battery management for the 85-models: reduced charging speed and reduced capacity as a "feature" included in the non-voluntary SOTA by tesla. "Many thanks" from users ending in law-suits against tesla.
Also wonder how long the Porsche-battery will last. The Future will tell.

If I can enjoy my "non-leased" i-Pace for longer by avoiding Real Fast Charging (> 100kW) I do not urge to upgrade. What is 40 minutes in a 800 km trip?
Corris Grey -- Model S --, Black Exterior Pack, 20" 5-split spoke 5070, Air-suspension, HUD, DAB+,
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Captain.Plummet
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Re: Battery advice.

Post by Captain.Plummet » Sat Nov 30, 2019 10:30 am

I think the Porsche 350KWh charging spec is a red herring. Most high end Porsche owners don’t do a huge mileage as they tend to own other vehicles, so yearly averages of 5000 miles are not uncommon. In that case home charging will be the main method with relatively few rapid charges. Even then most of that will be done using sub 100KWh points.
A Porsche owner who rapid charged at 350KWh every other day would fry the battery inside a year.

Tophe74
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Re: Battery advice.

Post by Tophe74 » Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:16 pm

I never use fast DC chargers unless I do long trip and max 85%.
At home even if I could charge at 7kw I often charge at 3.5 km between 25 and 80% except for long trips I top it at 100%.
Still 100% health after 1 year and 17 000km.
I pace FE photon red since 20.10.18

FENorway
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Re: Battery advice.

Post by FENorway » Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:42 pm

Tried fast charging once, but it wasn't. It was slow. Max 54kw@48%SOC. Then tapering down to around 50kw. Charge point was rated at 150 kw. Had driven 200 km before I charged. As things stands today, the I-Pace is not made for longer Journey and is no competitor for ICE cars. (Like the e-tron is with the ultra fast charging at any place, time or temperature.)
FE Corris grey light oyster/light oyster Performance 22" 5069 & 18" 19C_19.46.4-458817 and 18.2

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Bart
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Re: Battery advice.

Post by Bart » Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:46 pm

FENorway wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:42 pm
Tried fast charging once, but it wasn't. It was slow. Max 54kw@48%SOC. Then tapering down to around 50kw. Charge point was rated at 150 kw. Had driven 200 km before I charged. As things stands today, the I-Pace is not made for longer Journey and is no competitor for ICE cars. (Like the e-tron is with the ultra fast charging at any place, time or temperature.)
Sorry, but I disagree. I've done over 33.000 km now, within a year. Also longer trips from NL to (and within) Norway, Prague, Germany. At Fastned, Ionity I do have fast charging speeds 100 kW quickly reducing to 84kW. Only charge up to 80%.
In Norway the "fast" (50kW) Fortum chargers are everywhere, also at supermarkets. Charging while doing some shopping (up to 80%) and off you go.
When planned properly (abetterrouteplanner.com) it is not a hassle, and a 40 min brake every 2-2.5 hours is no problem at al, even relaxing. Yes, different from driving an ICE with 600 km without a break. [I am sub-50 so my bladder/prostate can manage, but that is an other thread :lol: ]

I am really looking forward for my next trips to Milano, Copenhagen and Paris. A bunch of good Podcasts via Apple car play alternated with some Spotify playlists. Although I can take an ICE-car I definitely prefer to go with the I-Pace. I love the car also on long distance trips.
Corris Grey -- Model S --, Black Exterior Pack, 20" 5-split spoke 5070, Air-suspension, HUD, DAB+,
Heated Windscreen, Heated Steering Wheel
--
In control (OTA): S20C_20.43.1-618886 -- H264 -- connectivity 15.2
Ordered 04-2018, Delivered 12-2018

Captain.Plummet
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Location: UK

Re: Battery advice.

Post by Captain.Plummet » Sat Nov 30, 2019 5:19 pm

FENorway wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:42 pm
Tried fast charging once, but it wasn't. It was slow. Max 54kw@48%SOC. Then tapering down to around 50kw. Charge point was rated at 150 kw. Had driven 200 km before I charged. As things stands today, the I-Pace is not made for longer Journey and is no competitor for ICE cars. (Like the e-tron is with the ultra fast charging at any place, time or temperature.)
Not my experience. I do plenty of journeys where I drive 120 miles and use a destination charger for a couple of hours to put 30 miles in the battery so I can return home with plenty of margin. I have used a few 50KWh chargers but I rarely put more than 120 miles into the car during those sessions. This gives me a one-way range of 360 miles, enough to go to Lands End or Inverness from my home. The I Pace will, after the update, be one of the longest range BEV cars on the market with 280 mile range driven respectfully.

FENorway
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Re: Battery advice.

Post by FENorway » Sat Nov 30, 2019 5:42 pm

Captain.Plummet wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 5:19 pm
FENorway wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:42 pm
Tried fast charging once, but it wasn't. It was slow. Max 54kw@48%SOC. Then tapering down to around 50kw. Charge point was rated at 150 kw. Had driven 200 km before I charged. As things stands today, the I-Pace is not made for longer Journey and is no competitor for ICE cars. (Like the e-tron is with the ultra fast charging at any place, time or temperature.)
Not my experience. I do plenty of journeys where I drive 120 miles and use a destination charger for a couple of hours to put 30 miles in the battery so I can return home with plenty of margin. I have used a few 50KWh chargers but I rarely put more than 120 miles into the car during those sessions. This gives me a one-way range of 360 miles, enough to go to Lands End or Inverness from my home. The I Pace will, after the update, be one of the longest range BEV cars on the market with 280 mile range driven respectfully.
I was at a meeting on Thursday where an engineer from JLR explained about this update. My understanding was that 8% range gain was under cold conditions. At ideal temperatures (20-30 degress) there will be minor improvements and therefore also no New WLTP rating.
FE Corris grey light oyster/light oyster Performance 22" 5069 & 18" 19C_19.46.4-458817 and 18.2

Captain.Plummet
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Re: Battery advice.

Post by Captain.Plummet » Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:08 pm

FENorway wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 5:42 pm
Captain.Plummet wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 5:19 pm
FENorway wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 3:42 pm
Tried fast charging once, but it wasn't. It was slow. Max 54kw@48%SOC. Then tapering down to around 50kw. Charge point was rated at 150 kw. Had driven 200 km before I charged. As things stands today, the I-Pace is not made for longer Journey and is no competitor for ICE cars. (Like the e-tron is with the ultra fast charging at any place, time or temperature.)
Not my experience. I do plenty of journeys where I drive 120 miles and use a destination charger for a couple of hours to put 30 miles in the battery so I can return home with plenty of margin. I have used a few 50KWh chargers but I rarely put more than 120 miles into the car during those sessions. This gives me a one-way range of 360 miles, enough to go to Lands End or Inverness from my home. The I Pace will, after the update, be one of the longest range BEV cars on the market with 280 mile range driven respectfully.
I was at a meeting on Thursday where an engineer from JLR explained about this update. My understanding was that 8% range gain was under cold conditions. At ideal temperatures (20-30 degress) there will be minor improvements and therefore also no New WLTP rating.
Not quite my understanding from my mates at JLR but we’ll see.

emgf
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Re: Battery advice.

Post by emgf » Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:09 pm

Tophe74 wrote:
Sat Nov 30, 2019 12:16 pm
I never use fast DC chargers unless I do long trip and max 85%.
At home even if I could charge at 7kw I often charge at 3.5 km between 25 and 80% except for long trips I top it at 100%.
Still 100% health after 1 year and 17 000km.
👏👏👏
SE Yulong White , light oyster interior , 20" Gloss Black , since October 2018 , IMC: S19C ... Telematics 18.2 , H264

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