IONITY pricing

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Buzzer
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Re: IONITY pricing

Post by Buzzer » Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:38 am

This really shows that Tesla have this nailed with their charging network. Fast charging at a reasonable rate and they work!
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Rbrandwijk
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Re: IONITY pricing

Post by Rbrandwijk » Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:56 am

The issue is that JLR is missing the boat. With Tesla having its supercharger network and VW, Audi, Mercedes, BMW, Porsche, Ford and Hyundai having favourable Ionity charging rates, JLR is the only company left with no charging deal. This will hurt them in future sales.

If I was JLR, I would make a deal with Tesla to use their supercharger network. This will give JLR a competitive advantage compared to the other premium cars. And by the way, Elon Musk was willing to open their supercharger network to others.

Tophe74
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Re: IONITY pricing

Post by Tophe74 » Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:21 pm

Am afraid that JLR just wanted to lower their global CO2 with the i-pace and that they don't take much care of their customers... Sad.
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emgf
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Re: IONITY pricing

Post by emgf » Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:24 pm

Tophe74 wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:21 pm
Am afraid that JLR just wanted to lower their global CO2 with the i-pace and that they don't take much care of their customers... Sad.
I am afraid that you might be right
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scm
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Re: IONITY pricing

Post by scm » Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:02 pm

More likely that it's a minority seller with new tech that dealers don't fully (or even partly!) inderstand.

DougTheMac
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Re: IONITY pricing

Post by DougTheMac » Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:35 pm

As I have pointed out in various earlier threads, what you pay for at a rapid charger isn’t kW-hr, it is time saving. It is completely disingenuous to compare the cost per kW-hr of 240V AC at 7kW at your home with 400/800V electronically controlled DC at 350kW at a remote location. It’s like complaining that Costabucks charges 10 times as much for a coffee as you could make it for at home. Why not charge at a free 3kW charger if you are only concerned with cost? Time, that’s why!

Comparing like-for-like, Ionity’s new charges seem quite steep compared with other CCS networks. But if your car is able to take advantage of the very high charging speeds of Ionity, the time saving still makes them attractive.

Someone has commented that Porsche etc owners will not be paying these rates, but even if they were:

Compare a Taycan and an I-Pace, both needing to take on 50kW-hr, and with a choice of adjacent chargers, Ionity and, say, Instavolt 50kW CCS at 35p/kW-hr. Both will cost £34.50 on Ionity and £17.50 on Instavolt, so Ionity costs £17 more. But even on an I-Pace, which might average 80kW on Ionity, the time saving is 22.5min, or £45/hr. If the Taycan can charge at c250kW, that’s a time saving of 48min, or £21/hr.

So, how much do you value your time? Enough to buy a Taycan? I’m retired, all the time in the world, but I’d still pay £17 to cut 23min off a (by definition) very long day’s driving.

The problem for I-Pace owners is that we can’t take advantage of the very fast charging offered by Ionity. That’s not Ionity’s fault. They are charging a premium price for a unique premium service. They don’t want Porsches (or even Audis) to be waiting to charge while an inferior (in terms of charging speed) I-Pace hogs the charger for 3 (or 2) times as long.

If and when we get 100kW (or even 107kW??) charging, the cost equation will change slightly. In the meantime, Ionity may seem more expensive than others, but I for one would rather spend an extra £17 at a hassle-free Ionity than mess about for 10mins trying to get an Ecotricity charger to provide 38kW on a good day.

Sure, Ionity are now poor value compared with the 150kW offerings from BP, Instavolt and others. If a cheaper, equally convenient 100kW charger is available, indeed, better to use it. But if the alternative involves a much slower charge, or a higher chance of being occupied/broken, or requires a bigger diversion, Ionity might still save you considerable time=money.

Let’s face it, guys, your I-Pace is probably costing you £10K per annum (so maybe 50p-£1 per mile) in depreciation and other costs. £100 pa to save 2 or 3 hours on the occasional long journeys is 1% - pretty negligible in anyone’s book.
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MjrPayne
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Re: IONITY pricing

Post by MjrPayne » Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:52 am

I've been doing same kind of calculations. Like if I need 50kW to get home the cost of 50kW charger is 12€ and takes an hour. Ionity then about 30min and cost 40€. So spending extra 30 mins saves 28€ = 56€/h. That's also tax free so it's much better that I earn working :) Also cars which can fully use Ionity fast charging is expensive. Coming cheaper models with smaller batteries can't fully utilize Ionity chargers. Also how often you might need it, is it worth to pay 200+€/year service fee to get cheaper kWh price? So it look like Ionity fast chargers would be used by Audi, Porsche or Mercedes drivers. Would there be enough of them? With this pricing Ionity turn it's back to majority of EV drivers. I hope that other providers won't follow. If they do, next car I get then might be a PHEV. Local drives with electricity and long runs with gas which is cheaper that charging 0,79€/kWh.
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ardevd
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Re: IONITY pricing

Post by ardevd » Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:01 am

DougTheMac wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:35 pm
As I have pointed out in various earlier threads, what you pay for at a rapid charger isn’t kW-hr, it is time saving. It is completely disingenuous to compare the cost per kW-hr of 240V AC at 7kW at your home with 400/800V electronically controlled DC at 350kW at a remote location. It’s like complaining that Costabucks charges 10 times as much for a coffee as you could make it for at home. Why not charge at a free 3kW charger if you are only concerned with cost? Time, that’s why!

Comparing like-for-like, Ionity’s new charges seem quite steep compared with other CCS networks. But if your car is able to take advantage of the very high charging speeds of Ionity, the time saving still makes them attractive.

Someone has commented that Porsche etc owners will not be paying these rates, but even if they were:

Compare a Taycan and an I-Pace, both needing to take on 50kW-hr, and with a choice of adjacent chargers, Ionity and, say, Instavolt 50kW CCS at 35p/kW-hr. Both will cost £34.50 on Ionity and £17.50 on Instavolt, so Ionity costs £17 more. But even on an I-Pace, which might average 80kW on Ionity, the time saving is 22.5min, or £45/hr. If the Taycan can charge at c250kW, that’s a time saving of 48min, or £21/hr.

So, how much do you value your time? Enough to buy a Taycan? I’m retired, all the time in the world, but I’d still pay £17 to cut 23min off a (by definition) very long day’s driving.

The problem for I-Pace owners is that we can’t take advantage of the very fast charging offered by Ionity. That’s not Ionity’s fault. They are charging a premium price for a unique premium service. They don’t want Porsches (or even Audis) to be waiting to charge while an inferior (in terms of charging speed) I-Pace hogs the charger for 3 (or 2) times as long.

If and when we get 100kW (or even 107kW??) charging, the cost equation will change slightly. In the meantime, Ionity may seem more expensive than others, but I for one would rather spend an extra £17 at a hassle-free Ionity than mess about for 10mins trying to get an Ecotricity charger to provide 38kW on a good day.

Sure, Ionity are now poor value compared with the 150kW offerings from BP, Instavolt and others. If a cheaper, equally convenient 100kW charger is available, indeed, better to use it. But if the alternative involves a much slower charge, or a higher chance of being occupied/broken, or requires a bigger diversion, Ionity might still save you considerable time=money.

Let’s face it, guys, your I-Pace is probably costing you £10K per annum (so maybe 50p-£1 per mile) in depreciation and other costs. £100 pa to save 2 or 3 hours on the occasional long journeys is 1% - pretty negligible in anyone’s book.
Pretty sure your entire argument falls apart by the fact that, as you also mention, other high speed chargers (150kW) are significantly cheaper. So unless you're driving around in a Taycan, you won't get any benefit from the theoretically higher speeds Ionity is offering. Here in Norway there are a couple of very reliable alternatives to Ionity.

Personally, I only use fast chargers a few times a year, but there are plenty of people out there who depend on them a lot more. Ionity's ridiculous pricing will drive more customers to Tesla and/or put people off EVs all together.
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ardevd
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Re: IONITY pricing

Post by ardevd » Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:12 am

Also, I thought the whole idea behind Ionity was to have the EU, and the European car manufacturers subsidize the charging infrastructure in order to get people into EVs. Seems to me like someone figured there's money to be made.
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Thincat
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Re: IONITY pricing

Post by Thincat » Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:22 am

DougTheMac wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:35 pm
As I have pointed out in various earlier threads, what you pay for at a rapid charger isn’t kW-hr, it is time saving. It is completely disingenuous to compare the cost per kW-hr of 240V AC at 7kW at your home with 400/800V electronically controlled DC at 350kW at a remote location. It’s like complaining that Costabucks charges 10 times as much for a coffee as you could make it for at home. Why not charge at a free 3kW charger if you are only concerned with cost? Time, that’s why!

Comparing like-for-like, Ionity’s new charges seem quite steep compared with other CCS networks. But if your car is able to take advantage of the very high charging speeds of Ionity, the time saving still makes them attractive.

Someone has commented that Porsche etc owners will not be paying these rates, but even if they were:

Compare a Taycan and an I-Pace, both needing to take on 50kW-hr, and with a choice of adjacent chargers, Ionity and, say, Instavolt 50kW CCS at 35p/kW-hr. Both will cost £34.50 on Ionity and £17.50 on Instavolt, so Ionity costs £17 more. But even on an I-Pace, which might average 80kW on Ionity, the time saving is 22.5min, or £45/hr. If the Taycan can charge at c250kW, that’s a time saving of 48min, or £21/hr.

So, how much do you value your time? Enough to buy a Taycan? I’m retired, all the time in the world, but I’d still pay £17 to cut 23min off a (by definition) very long day’s driving.

The problem for I-Pace owners is that we can’t take advantage of the very fast charging offered by Ionity. That’s not Ionity’s fault. They are charging a premium price for a unique premium service. They don’t want Porsches (or even Audis) to be waiting to charge while an inferior (in terms of charging speed) I-Pace hogs the charger for 3 (or 2) times as long.

If and when we get 100kW (or even 107kW??) charging, the cost equation will change slightly. In the meantime, Ionity may seem more expensive than others, but I for one would rather spend an extra £17 at a hassle-free Ionity than mess about for 10mins trying to get an Ecotricity charger to provide 38kW on a good day.

Sure, Ionity are now poor value compared with the 150kW offerings from BP, Instavolt and others. If a cheaper, equally convenient 100kW charger is available, indeed, better to use it. But if the alternative involves a much slower charge, or a higher chance of being occupied/broken, or requires a bigger diversion, Ionity might still save you considerable time=money.

Let’s face it, guys, your I-Pace is probably costing you £10K per annum (so maybe 50p-£1 per mile) in depreciation and other costs. £100 pa to save 2 or 3 hours on the occasional long journeys is 1% - pretty negligible in anyone’s book.
Well said Doug!
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