I-Pace range

All Jaguar I-Pace related discussions
Jelle v/d Meer
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Re: I-Pace range

Post by Jelle v/d Meer » Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:36 pm

emgf wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:21 pm
Jelle , do you know the chargers mapping strategy of Ionity : one station every 200 km ? Or less ?
The once said their goal was to have an Ionity station every 120km.

If I look at what we see so far in reality I fail to see any form of strategy or logic in the placement of stations. Some are close to each other and others far away. West France is full of (planned) stations but the major Route du Soleil in East France has none.
I-pace S + HUD, Drive Pack, Light Oyster Sport Seats, Elec Tailgate, DAB+ & heated windshield I Ceasium Blue & 18" wheels


emgf
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Re: I-Pace range

Post by emgf » Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:39 pm

Yes unfortunately , although they are building one in Montelimar
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mclarenpaul
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Location: Luxembourg

Re: I-Pace range

Post by mclarenpaul » Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:41 pm

emgf wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:21 pm
Jelle v/d Meer wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:45 am
voisin wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:57 pm
Basically I'm wondering what is the most efficient speed, everything else being equal. According to the chart, it appears to be the slower it is, the more efficient.
From own experience on 2 long trips with the I-pace (see topic "Long Trips with I-pace" for data) it is quicker to drive faster and stop more often than to drive slower to reduce number of stops as long as there are 100kW+ chargers available

There are 2 effects that help more frequent stops to be quicker:
1) Charging till 50-55% SoC goes at 80-82kW after the speed goes down. Based on current charging speed charging twice from 5% to 45% (=24mins) is approx 10 minutes quicker than once from 5 to 85% (58mins)
2) Driving 250km at 100km/u takes 2,5hrs while driving twice 125km at 150km/h takes 2x 50mins =1hr 40mins

Yes you consume more so need to charge more but time saved driving is greater than time lost charging more. The fastest way to travel at the moment is to keep your SoC between 5% and 50%.
Jelle , do you know the chargers mapping strategy of Ionity : one station every 200 km ? Or less ?
I believe I read somewhere the goal is to have them maximum 60km apart. However, I think it'll be some time before this is a reality.
I Pace EV400 FE, Corris Grey, options: Oyster leather, 20' wheels, MY19, delivered 12/2018
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voisin
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Location: UK

Re: I-Pace range

Post by voisin » Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:05 pm

TeslaDriver, Jelle v/d Meer - thanks for your input! It's good to know that driving faster and stopping for a charge will result in an overall quicker trip. I'll certainly be planning the route with this in mind when we have to make a longer trip later this summer.

Though originally what prompted me to think about time/duration of travel is the efficiency of the battery itself. Mostly a theoretical question, (but with possible practical implications i.e. emergency where it is necessary to drive as far as possible on the remaining battery), I wondered what is the cut off point where driving slower will no longer result in an increased range? And as such, what would be the most efficient speed in this regard (for the battery/range), everything else being equal. Anorak suggested 30mph, which makes sense as a general figure, it is interesting though what would be the range if the speed was 20mph? Or 5mph?

I could think of two factors when time (duration of the travel) would appear to affect battery/range. First is the amount of energy which the car requires to maintain its functions once the ignition is on, even if the car is stationary. It makes sense the longer the ignition is on, the more energy will be consumed. And if this is true then the car being "on" during 1 hour drive will spend less energy in this regard than the car being "on" during 4 hour drive.

The second factor is energy involved in maintaining the speed. For example maintaining speed at 80mph requires more energy to overcome the air resistance and friction as opposed to maintaining speed at 20mph, however the duration of time during which this energy will be required is less at 80mph as opposed to 20mph (because getting from A to B will be quicker at 80mph as opposed to 20mph).

I suspect the above energy losses due to time are going to be very small, hence it is likely a very theoretical question, but I'm just curious.
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oop north
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Re: I-Pace range

Post by oop north » Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:57 pm

I would expect temperature to have an impact - the colder it is; the more energy will be used to heat the car interior and battery, which would indicate you need to go a bit faster. David Bricknell (don’t know if on here) has written an e-book on the i3 and another on the iPace - I think I’m the i3 he shows charts indicating that something around 45-55 mph was the optimum speed to maximise range
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DougTheMac
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Re: I-Pace range

Post by DougTheMac » Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:10 pm

(Responding to Voisin before seeing oop north)...
Not such a theoretical question; worth knowing for emergencies, but there isn’t a simple answer. You are correct that the consumption per unit distance (kW-hr/100mi) will increase at both high speeds (aero drag increasing with the square of the speed) and at very low speeds (where the energy required to keep the battery and the cabin at optimum temperature is time dependent and hence inversely proportional to speed). The latter is far from negligible when the ambient temperature is low. The result is a “hockey-stick” curve with a minimum at a speed which will depend on temperature. I made some attempts to measure this, but it is inordinately difficult.
FWIIW, I’d suggest 40-ish mph rather than anorak’s 30mph. I think the curve is fairly flat, and even if the true optimum is 30, the penalty at 40 is small, and easier to keep sane. The optimum speed will be higher when the weather is cold. (As oop north points out.)
But driving technique is more important than absolute speed. Study Chewy’s posts. Accelerate and (regeneratively) brake gently, with lots of anticipation, and try to keep the “power” needle close to vertical (zero) and as steady as possible. Ideally, your regen figure should be near-zero; eg on a downhill slope, let the car get above 40 if it wants to, rather than trying to stop it doing so; and don’t force it to stay at 40 up hill either.
All worth practicing some time when you have the patience, in case you are ever faced with the actual problem!
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TeslaDriver
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Re: I-Pace range

Post by TeslaDriver » Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:22 am

voisin wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:05 pm
it is likely a very theoretical question, but I'm just curious.
Bjørn Nyland has some hypermiling videos, in case of interest


Ampera-e 623 km/387 mi


Hyundai Kona 830 km/516 mi


Tesla P85D 730km/450 mi


J2T2
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Location: England

Re: I-Pace range

Post by J2T2 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:55 am

Jelle v/d Meer wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:45 am
voisin wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:57 pm
Basically I'm wondering what is the most efficient speed, everything else being equal. According to the chart, it appears to be the slower it is, the more efficient.
From own experience on 2 long trips with the I-pace (see topic "Long Trips with I-pace" for data) it is quicker to drive faster and stop more often than to drive slower to reduce number of stops as long as there are 100kW+ chargers available

There are 2 effects that help more frequent stops to be quicker:
1) Charging till 50-55% SoC goes at 80-82kW after the speed goes down. Based on current charging speed charging twice from 5% to 45% (=24mins) is approx 10 minutes quicker than once from 5 to 85% (58mins)
2) Driving 250km at 100km/u takes 2,5hrs while driving twice 125km at 150km/h takes 2x 50mins =1hr 40mins

Yes you consume more so need to charge more but time saved driving is greater than time lost charging more. The fastest way to travel at the moment is to keep your SoC between 5% and 50%.
150km/hr is around 95mph so somewhat academic here in the UK! To get even an average of 70mph/100kmh you have to be travelling at 80mph/130kmh where you can and on the UK motorways that is not always advisable or even possible, setting aside illegality.
So in the UK the charging/speed strategy is going to be different.


Jelle v/d Meer
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Re: I-Pace range

Post by Jelle v/d Meer » Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:33 pm

J2T2 wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:55 am
150km/hr is around 95mph so somewhat academic here in the UK! To get even an average of 70mph/100kmh you have to be travelling at 80mph/130kmh where you can and on the UK motorways that is not always advisable or even possible, setting aside illegality.
So in the UK the charging/speed strategy is going to be different.
True but the same logic still applies at lower speeds as below extreme example demonstrates - if you need to drive 450 miles from charging point B to charging point K and drive 50mph it takes you 9 hours and at 75mph it takes you 6 hours.
If you followed Chewy's driving class then at 50mph you can get to 300wh/mile or 135kW while with Jag style driving at 75mph you get 600wh/mile or 270kW. I know not really fair but just to demonstrate.

With 50mph you charge 67.5kW from 10% till 91% - drive 225 miles and charge again to 91% to drive the last 225 miles. 2 x 225 = 450
With 75mph you charge 45kW from 10% till 65% - drive 75 miles and charge again to 65% and that you repeat 5 times = 6 x 75 = 450

9hrs driving + 2x charging 60+5 min = 11hrs 10mins total
6hrs driving + 6x charging 35+5 min = 10hrs total

Faster driving and faster charging (till lower SoC %) is making the difference despite double the consumption and double kW charged and as well having 4 more stops costing 5 minutes extra (off highway, park, start charger, end charger and drive away).
For me the added benefit is that you are stationary 1.5hr longer which should allow you to eat, drink, read a book, watch Netflix, do emails or ..... all kind of things you should not be doing while driving.

I guess the bigger issue with UK is the near complete absence of 100kW chargers or reliable fast DC chargers in general.

Same example but now with 50kW chargers instead of 150kW chargers shows equal total time.
9hrs driving + 2x charging 85+5 min = 12hrs total
6hrs driving + 6x charging 55+5 min = 12hrs total
I-pace S + HUD, Drive Pack, Light Oyster Sport Seats, Elec Tailgate, DAB+ & heated windshield I Ceasium Blue & 18" wheels


J2T2
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Location: England

Re: I-Pace range

Post by J2T2 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 2:23 pm

Jelle v/d Meer wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:33 pm
J2T2 wrote:
Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:55 am


I guess the bigger issue with UK is the near complete absence of 100kW chargers or reliable fast DC chargers in general.

Same example but now with 50kW chargers instead of 150kW chargers shows equal total time.
9hrs driving + 2x charging 85+5 min = 12hrs total
6hrs driving + 6x charging 55+5 min = 12hrs total
Nail on the head Jelle. Its the 50kW chargers that slow everything down. At 100kW its all faster. Now for the 350kW chargers.....


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