How clean is an EV?

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*****
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How clean is an EV?

Post by ***** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:23 pm

Gone

Discuss (or not) ?
Last edited by ***** on Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:45 pm, edited 14 times in total.

DougTheMac
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Re: How clean is an EV?

Post by DougTheMac » Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:25 pm

I’ve had this discussion frequently with a CC-denying petrolhead friend.

You can use the numbers to argue both ways. Yes, electricity generation in the UK is still fairly carbon-intensive (but it’s getting rapidly better). The I-Pace is not really a paragon of EV efficiency - many others (smaller, slower) are better. And then it depends on whether you are more interested in energy, carbon, or pollution. Low pollution in cities is a major advantage of EVs.

The real metric ought to be the lifetime numbers for these (including manufacture, use and disposal/recycling). There’s a study I saw recently that concluded that (current) EVs are a bit better than ICEs - from memory, 16 tonnes CO2 cf 20; but should get better.

And the other thing is the potential for the future. There is the potential to generate electricity in low-carbon ways, wind, solarPV, nuclear, tidal.

I’ve been trying to persuade my 14-year-old grandson that he should dedicate his life to getting electricity generation from nuclear fusion to work. I know it’s been 20 years away for the last 50, but it’s the only hope for humanity, and we spend such a piddly amount on it.

My tuppence-worth!
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FENorway
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Re: How clean is an EV?

Post by FENorway » Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:52 pm

Chewy wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:23 pm

So in the UK, the I-Pace is responsible for producing 39g of CO2 for every mile driven. This is far better than any ICE car, but not a magnitude better. My wife's Citroen C1 produces 85g/km. My XJ produces 149g/km
This was not fair against the I-Pace.
You must compare with a car at same size and same performance. A Macan Turbo or similar. Real life emission for a car like that is 300g/km.
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Tophe74
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Re: How clean is an EV?

Post by Tophe74 » Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:08 pm

Let's go for another polelmic topic ... Again ...
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SammyD
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Re: How clean is an EV?

Post by SammyD » Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:21 pm

Chewy wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:23 pm

I might add that because electricity generation in Norway is so clean, an I-Pace driver in Norway is only responsible for the creation of about 1.5g of CO2 for every mile driven.
The vast majority of the leccy that I've used in the 8153 miles that my car has done was supplied by Ecotricity. That means that for that I'm on the same sort of CO2 level as Norway. I think that around 10% is from unknown sources.

It is not a simple sum at all.
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*****
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Re: How clean is an EV?

Post by ***** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:26 pm

Gone
Last edited by ***** on Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

*****
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Re: How clean is an EV?

Post by ***** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:56 pm

FENorway wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:52 pm
Chewy wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:23 pm

So in the UK, the I-Pace is responsible for producing 39g of CO2 for every mile driven. This is far better than any ICE car, but not a magnitude better. My wife's Citroen C1 produces 85g/km. My XJ produces 149g/km
This was not fair against the I-Pace.
You must compare with a car at same size and same performance. A Macan Turbo or similar. Real life emission for a car like that is 300g/km.
XJ produces 300BHP and 700Nm of Torque. 0-60mph is only 1.5 seconds slower than the I-Pace. Top speed is way above the I-Pace. The I-Pace has higher power because the motor runs at 12,000 rpm, whereas the XJ engine is 6,000. The torque is similar(ish).

I would say they are in the same ballpark.

*****
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Re: How clean is an EV?

Post by ***** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:44 pm

It is generally accepted that between 50kg to 450kg of CO2 is produced in the manufacture of 1kWh capacity for a Lithium Battery. It depends where the battery is built that determines the amount of CO2 produced.

If we use the conservative value of 50kg, the I-Pace battery is 90kWh, so the production process produces 4,500kg of CO2. This is CO2 that is "owed" by my I-Pace to my XJ as this is additional CO2 that is produced in the manufacturing process.

The difference in CO2 produced by driving my I-Pace and my XJ is 149 - 39 = 110g/km.

So the I-Pace will use up this difference in 4,500,000 ÷ 110. This is approximately 40,000km or 25,000 miles.

So my I-Pace will start to produce less emissions than my XJ once I have driven 25,000 miles in my I-Pace.

The end.

SammyD
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Re: How clean is an EV?

Post by SammyD » Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:06 pm

Chewy wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:26 pm

Sorry, it all comes down the same national grid cables. Your electric is polluted by the other generated electric. However the CO2 figure would be higher if not for the clean electric that is put in the mix. The 180,000kg/GWh is based on the total mix. Hence why Norway is so much cleaner as they use hydro to produce the vast majority of their electric.
As long as Ecotricity put more Leccy into the grid than I consume then I have a clear conscience. What goes in must come out (Somewhere)
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******
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Re: How clean is an EV?

Post by ****** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:11 pm

Didn’t factor in the carbon emissions of getting the oil out the ground, refining it, and transporting it to the petrol station. Half arsed calculations. But whatever makes you feel better. The end.

Still waiting on Rob before you ask.

Edit: this is why I blocked you in the first place. I have no interest in reading childish ill-thought out pish like this.
Last edited by ****** on Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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