How clean is an EV?

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SammyD
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Re: How clean is an EV?

Post by SammyD » Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:12 pm

Chewy wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:44 pm
It is generally accepted that between 50kg to 450kg of CO2 is produced in the manufacture of 1kWh capacity for a Lithium Battery. It depends where the battery is built that determines the amount of CO2 produced.

If we use the conservative value of 50kg, the I-Pace battery is 90kWh, so the production process produces 4,500kg of CO2. This is CO2 that is "owed" by my I-Pace to my XJ as this is additional CO2 that is produced in the manufacturing process.

The difference in CO2 produced by driving my I-Pace and my XJ is 149 - 39 = 110g/km.

So the I-Pace will use up this difference in 4,500,000 ÷ 110. This is approximately 40,000km or 25,000 miles.

So my I-Pace will start to produce less emissions than my XJ once I have driven 25,000 miles in my I-Pace.

The end.
What about the energy use to produce the ICE part of your XJ (other ICE cars are available)?
That has to be considerable.
However, the 25K mile figure is not unreasonable if the car is expected to do 200K miles. Apart from my Outlander the four previous ICE's all did over 150K miles.
Driving "Hirundo Rustica" since 15th Mar 2019. Lovely Jubbly :D :D
S20B_20.27.3-568398 Maps : whatever is current.

*****
Posts: 1904
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:46 pm
Location: Forest of Dean. UK.

Re: How clean is an EV?

Post by ***** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:22 pm

SammyD wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:12 pm
Chewy wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:44 pm
It is generally accepted that between 50kg to 450kg of CO2 is produced in the manufacture of 1kWh capacity for a Lithium Battery. It depends where the battery is built that determines the amount of CO2 produced.

If we use the conservative value of 50kg, the I-Pace battery is 90kWh, so the production process produces 4,500kg of CO2. This is CO2 that is "owed" by my I-Pace to my XJ as this is additional CO2 that is produced in the manufacturing process.

The difference in CO2 produced by driving my I-Pace and my XJ is 149 - 39 = 110g/km.

So the I-Pace will use up this difference in 4,500,000 ÷ 110. This is approximately 40,000km or 25,000 miles.

So my I-Pace will start to produce less emissions than my XJ once I have driven 25,000 miles in my I-Pace.

The end.
What about the energy use to produce the ICE part of your XJ (other ICE cars are available)?
That has to be considerable.
However, the 25K mile figure is not unreasonable if the car is expected to do 200K miles. Apart from my Outlander the four previous ICE's all did over 150K miles.

Balanced out by things like the two PM Motors in the I-Pace.

*****
Posts: 1904
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:46 pm
Location: Forest of Dean. UK.

Re: How clean is an EV?

Post by ***** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:24 pm

Goshdarnit wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:11 pm
Didn’t factor in the carbon emissions of getting the oil out the ground, refining it, and transporting it to the petrol station. Half arsed calculations. But whatever makes you feel better. The end.

Still waiting on Rob before you ask.

Edit: this is why I blocked you in the first place. I have no interest in reading childish ill-thought out pish like this.
Ah, maybe you can provide that information?

The End
Last edited by ***** on Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Delta5
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Location: Midlands

Re: How clean is an EV?

Post by Delta5 » Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:29 pm

Sorry Chewy you have rose colored spectacles, the 85 kw is the cars capacity it takes no account of the efficiency, transmission and conversion cost of electricity, around 50% of our power is non fossil fuel , most of the rest is gas. A modern gas combined cycle generator is around 60% efficient, add to that transmission and conversion cost and the fuel efficiency is very different. Nuclear has little CO2 footprint in generation but very high in construction and decommissioning. Wind and solar has a much lower carbon footprint but it is not zero

Norway with a very high renewable content is very different prospect, in the UK it takes way more than 85kw of fuel to charge an IPace
My bet is that in total energy needed the gms/km is close to an XJ driven in the same way
IPace SE Caesium Blue, Ivory interior, Air suspension, 18in wheels, Drivers pack, 360. arrived 16th July, very nice.

******
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Location: UK

Re: How clean is an EV?

Post by ****** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:35 pm

Chewy wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:24 pm
Goshdarnit wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:11 pm
Didn’t factor in the carbon emissions of getting the oil out the ground, refining it, and transporting it to the petrol station. Half arsed calculations. But whatever makes you feel better. The end.

Still waiting on Rob before you ask.

Edit: this is why I blocked you in the first place. I have no interest in reading childish ill-thought out pish like this.
Ah, maybe you can provide that information?

The End
Not up to me to correct your high school project chewy. You’re the one coming in here spouting the numbers. If you don’t have them then you’re wasting everyone’s time including your own. Your car kills people. Way more people than mine. The end.

Jeffrey
Posts: 89
Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:00 pm
Location: Spalding

Re: How clean is an EV?

Post by Jeffrey » Fri Nov 15, 2019 10:22 pm

Chewy wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:24 pm
Goshdarnit wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:11 pm
Didn’t factor in the carbon emissions of getting the oil out the ground, refining it, and transporting it to the petrol station. Half arsed calculations. But whatever makes you feel better. The end.

Still waiting on Rob before you ask.

Edit: this is why I blocked you in the first place. I have no interest in reading childish ill-thought out pish like this.
Ah, maybe you can provide that information?

The End
The end? I wish. At an average of over five posts per day don’t you have anything else to do?
MY20 HSE Santorini Black.

*****
Posts: 1904
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2018 5:46 pm
Location: Forest of Dean. UK.

Re: How clean is an EV?

Post by ***** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:02 pm

This is the end.
Last edited by ***** on Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

******
Posts: 2283
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:55 pm
Location: UK

Re: How clean is an EV?

Post by ****** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:25 pm

Just go join a diesel forum. I’m sure there are plenty of delusional fools who want to hear your nonsense. You really are out to annoy people and are proving that every word in your PM to me was as full of BS as every word you post publically these days. This is not the forum for you. For the love of god, do what you said you were going to do. Sell your car and piss off.

******
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Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:55 pm
Location: UK

Re: How clean is an EV?

Post by ****** » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:29 pm

And for the record, your carbon output is just the tip of the iceberg in relation to the noxious substances spewed out by your diesel death trap.

All that pleading “please unblock me GD” just so you could subject me to this pathetic nonsense? This is why you were blocked.

******
Posts: 2283
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:55 pm
Location: UK

Re: How clean is an EV?

Post by ****** » Sat Nov 16, 2019 12:30 am

Didn’t know Donald had signed up.

A litre of diesel (about 60 miles of range) creates less CO2 than a large EV battery’s production. Right. Even if that’s true (and forgive me but using the phrase “I’d say” doesn’t really count as evidence) a large EV battery is good for (nobody knows yet for sure) but well in excess of 150,000 miles. Then it can enjoy a second life as stationary storage. If producing a LITRE of diesel produced more carbon than a 150,000 miles (followed by many years in its second role) battery then we’d be in an even bigger mess. So I fail to see what relevance that has or what point you are even attempting to make with that one.

Also I love how there’s no such thing as clean electricity but all your diesel is pumped from Norway at zero CO2 cost. First off that’s just a lie. Second off, even if it were true, how do they get it to the pumping station? Magical elves?

And let’s not forget the carbon (and other) costs of cleaning up after the most polluting industry on the face of the earth. Oil spills from tankers, leaking pipelines (probably from Norway) and who knows how many other disasters.

This flawed logic is the sort of nonsense we have put up with for years that has put us in the mess we are in. I just don’t understand your agenda for these posts because you just cannot be this dumb.

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