Analysis: How ‘green’ is the electricity we use to charge our EVs?

The place to discuss everything else..
Jelle v/d Meer
Posts: 1276
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:43 pm
Location: Tilburg / Netherlands

Analysis: How ‘green’ is the electricity we use to charge our EVs?

Post by Jelle v/d Meer » Fri May 15, 2020 9:57 am

Found below information on the internet - for full info follow the link.
https://www.eafo.eu/news/23813/Newslett ... y%25202020

Introduction
In this analyses, the “Well-to-EV” carbon intensity (CI) of the electricity used to charge European BEVs (M1+N1) is analysed. The BEV fleets sizes and the CI in the different countries, is used to determine the weighted average CI of the European BEV. The determined CI includes the impacts of electricity generation, upstream impacts related to fuel extraction or recovery and the transmission & distribution losses of the network. We define this as the “Well-to-EV” carbon intensity. This approaches the “Well-to-Tank” definition used for ICE vehicles.

Summary
The weighted average “Well-to-EV” carbon intensity of European BEVs in 2019 was 186 g CO2 per kWh. This is based on country specific carbon intensity of the electricity available and the size of the BEV fleets in these European countries. The top 15 European BEV fleets represent over 97% of the total European BEV fleet. The top 15 fleet had a weighted CI average of 178 gCO2/kWh in 2019.

The CI of the production of electricity in Europe has reduced considerable over the last years and is estimated to drop to 145 gCO2 per kWh in 2030 according to Eurelectric.

Consumers and charge-point operators often select renewable electricity as their source of electricity, which reduces the average carbon intensity per kWh used to charge EVs further.

The carbon intensity of the EU electricity supply

The European Energy Agency (EEA) provides an overview of the carbon intensity (CI) of the electricity produced of the EU Member States.

To calculate “Well-to-EV” carbon intensities, the CI impacts of the upstream fuel impacts (from fuel extraction or recovery) and the losses from transmission and distribution of electricity to consumers must be added to the EEA production CI.

Losses from charging EVs are already included in the electricity consumption data from EVs when they occur after the meter of the chargepoint. For fast-charging, which represents a very small part of the charging of BEVs, some extra losses might have to be considered when compared to slow charging.

Values for the “Well-to-EV” CI of the electricity supply as defined above:

431 gCO2/kWh in 2008
332 gCO2/kWh in 2017
302 gCO2/kWh in 2019.

In the figure below, the “Well-to-EV” CI of the average EU electricity supply 2008-2019 is illustrated. For 2030 including an expected acceleration of renewables based on the EU Green Deal, the production-only CI is estimated to be around
145 gCO2/kWh
(source: Eurelectric, production of electricity only)[ii].

figure1.png

figure2_0.png

I-pace S + HUD + Drive Pack + Light Oyster Sport Seats + Tailgate I Ceasium Blue | 18" wheels
Infotainment 20A + Telematics 18.2 | ODO 51.400km | 2020 Efficiency 204watt/km.

Abu Dhabi Dude
Posts: 579
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:34 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Analysis: How ‘green’ is the electricity we use to charge our EVs?

Post by Abu Dhabi Dude » Fri May 15, 2020 10:26 am

Carbon intensity varies so much from location to location that I’m not sure about the validity of them quoting an “average carbon intensity” like that. I suppose for big picture views it makes sense, but for an individual making a buying decision, local grid intensity is what matters. North of Scotland a couple of days ago had a grid intensity it 0g per kWh and south Scotland was 10. And those kind of numbers are quite common in the Scottish grid (well 0 is exceptional but always very low). So that kind of article could actually discourage a Scottish buyer on the basis of “why bother for such a small difference” when in fact their individual purchase would make a significant difference.

Interesting article nonetheless.

Jelle v/d Meer
Posts: 1276
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:43 pm
Location: Tilburg / Netherlands

Re: Analysis: How ‘green’ is the electricity we use to charge our EVs?

Post by Jelle v/d Meer » Fri May 15, 2020 12:31 pm

Abu Dhabi Dude wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 10:26 am
Carbon intensity varies so much from location to location that I’m not sure about the validity of them quoting an “average carbon intensity” like that. I suppose for big picture views it makes sense, but for an individual making a buying decision, local grid intensity is what matters. North of Scotland a couple of days ago had a grid intensity it 0g per kWh and south Scotland was 10. And those kind of numbers are quite common in the Scottish grid (well 0 is exceptional but always very low). So that kind of article could actually discourage a Scottish buyer on the basis of “why bother for such a small difference” when in fact their individual purchase would make a significant difference.

Interesting article nonetheless.
??Such a small difference ??
Almost all ICE cars run well above 100 gCO2 per km and that only measures the exhaust from the car not the part from well to fuel station.
Compare that to UK overall electricity at 218 gCO2 per kWh, with 5km per kWh translates to 44 gCO2 per km on basis of well to usage.
That is easily 50% reduction of CO2 emissions not to mention all the other pollution that comes out of tailpipe.

Or comparing it differently with the fact that only Electricity has the potential of getting cleaner with time.

Petrol 2,269 gCO2 per liter
Diesel 2,606 gCO2 per liter
LPG 1,610 gCO2 per liter
Electricity 178 gCO2 per kWh
I-pace S + HUD + Drive Pack + Light Oyster Sport Seats + Tailgate I Ceasium Blue | 18" wheels
Infotainment 20A + Telematics 18.2 | ODO 51.400km | 2020 Efficiency 204watt/km.

Abu Dhabi Dude
Posts: 579
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:34 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Analysis: How ‘green’ is the electricity we use to charge our EVs?

Post by Abu Dhabi Dude » Fri May 15, 2020 1:35 pm

Jelle v/d Meer wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 12:31 pm

??Such a small difference ??
Almost all ICE cars run well above 100 gCO2 per km and that only measures the exhaust from the car not the part from well to fuel station.
Compare that to UK overall electricity at 218 gCO2 per kWh, with 5km per kWh translates to 44 gCO2 per km on basis of well to usage.
That is easily 50% reduction of CO2 emissions not to mention all the other pollution that comes out of tailpipe.

Or comparing it differently with the fact that only Electricity has the potential of getting cleaner with time.

Petrol 2,269 gCO2 per liter
Diesel 2,606 gCO2 per liter
LPG 1,610 gCO2 per liter
Electricity 178 gCO2 per kWh
You’re preaching to the converted! I’m only talking about the average consumer’s perception when they read figures like that without fully understanding the underlying data. It’s just such a regional thing (electricity generation) that I’m not sure a Europe-wide average figure really helps inform people for their own personal choice. I can see how it might matter to EU policy-makers more, but for consumers I feel more regional reporting will give them the information they need to come to a decision.

SammyD
Posts: 1078
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:44 pm
Location: N.E Hampshire, UK

Re: Analysis: How ‘green’ is the electricity we use to charge our EVs?

Post by SammyD » Fri May 15, 2020 1:43 pm

Reports like this are very general and have to be viewed in the light of how you use electricity. Just looking at the generation mix ignores AFAIK all domestic generation (too hard to quantify)
A lot of us here charge our cars at home using 100% renewable power. I've done 10.5K miles in my I-Pace and my guess is that over 90% of that has been done with 100% renewable electricity.
I also generate electricity from my solar panels. I've been charging my car with the granny charger which uses about 500W/hour more than my panels generate on a sunny day. Even greener miles.
Driving "Hirundo Rustica" since 15th Mar 2019. Lovely Jubbly :D :D
S20A_20.07.5-507626 Maps : whatever is current.

ProjectZ
Posts: 72
Joined: Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:33 pm
Location: UK

Re: Analysis: How ‘green’ is the electricity we use to charge our EVs?

Post by ProjectZ » Fri May 15, 2020 9:08 pm

Or more importantly it’s really fast and fun to drive.

DougTheMac
Posts: 447
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:50 pm
Location: Suffolk UK

Re: Analysis: How ‘green’ is the electricity we use to charge our EVs?

Post by DougTheMac » Fri May 15, 2020 9:17 pm

I’ll probably get shot down for saying this, but I don’t see the relevance of a national, regional, local or even individual CI for electricity production in assessing the “green-ness” of an individual’s EV.
Until we have, at a grid level, an excess of zero-C electricity available, any marginal consumption of ‘leccy will result in a marginal increase of fossil-fuel generation. Even if you have your own PV or wind generation, and assuming you are connected to the grid and can feed your excess to others, then the consumption of your EV means someone else has to generate a bit more, in the end from FF.
So, for any EV anywhere, the C you save is that of an equivalent ICE, and the C you consume is that of the MARGINAL generation plant; almost certainly natural gas (which at least is better than coal or oil). As much of Europe has a degree of cross-border electricity transmission, France is no different from Germany.
As I’ve said before, full marks to those who generate their own ‘leccy. But whether or not you run an EV is an independent decision. The fact that you charge from your own supply is irrelevant. In exactly the same way, those who subscribe to a “green” energy supplier aren’t using “green” electricity; they are using the same ‘leccy as everyone else, but choosing to support “green” generators by paying slightly more for it.
I’ll duck back down below the parapet again....
HSE Silicon Silver Pano Air+AD Oyster since 1Mar19
S19B_19.40.4-436082 & anon

Delta5
Posts: 203
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:32 pm
Location: Midlands

Re: Analysis: How ‘green’ is the electricity we use to charge our EVs?

Post by Delta5 » Sat May 16, 2020 8:07 am

In England we are all using the same mix of power, yesterday it was around 30% Renewable, 20% Nuclear, most of the rest Gas. So unless you charge exclusively from your own renewable, which is highly unlikely we all use the same. Scotland probably has a higher renewable content, Norway is mostly renewable. Government incentives are making EVs more attractive at present but we do need to be careful about claims to be green, my own justification is going to be how much tax I’m saving compared with my mates who have Range Rovers, that will really hurt them!. LOL.
IPace SE Caesium Blue, Ivory interior promised for May or June or July or ———-

Abu Dhabi Dude
Posts: 579
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:34 pm
Location: United Kingdom

Re: Analysis: How ‘green’ is the electricity we use to charge our EVs?

Post by Abu Dhabi Dude » Sat May 16, 2020 11:10 am

These are the figures for North and South Scotland right now. These are not unusual stats. I’m confident of my claims to be green.

574A2BCE-4AB0-4400-BFE3-7FA5F870292B.jpeg

B5C40425-6C95-469A-A6EC-1D8DD91B03D2.jpeg


Quakered
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon May 06, 2019 1:00 am
Location: London

Re: Analysis: How ‘green’ is the electricity we use to charge our EVs?

Post by Quakered » Sat May 16, 2020 6:19 pm

DougTheMac wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 9:17 pm
I’ll probably get shot down for saying this, but I don’t see the relevance of a national, regional, local or even individual CI for electricity production in assessing the “green-ness” of an individual’s EV.
Until we have, at a grid level, an excess of zero-C electricity available, any marginal consumption of ‘leccy will result in a marginal increase of fossil-fuel generation. Even if you have your own PV or wind generation, and assuming you are connected to the grid and can feed your excess to others, then the consumption of your EV means someone else has to generate a bit more, in the end from FF.
So, for any EV anywhere, the C you save is that of an equivalent ICE, and the C you consume is that of the MARGINAL generation plant; almost certainly natural gas (which at least is better than coal or oil). As much of Europe has a degree of cross-border electricity transmission, France is no different from Germany.
As I’ve said before, full marks to those who generate their own ‘leccy. But whether or not you run an EV is an independent decision. The fact that you charge from your own supply is irrelevant. In exactly the same way, those who subscribe to a “green” energy supplier aren’t using “green” electricity; they are using the same ‘leccy as everyone else, but choosing to support “green” generators by paying slightly more for it.
I’ll duck back down below the parapet again....
Surely any global change can only happen gradually and everyone moving to PV panels on their home or properly insulating those homes or getting an EV (hopefully to replace a stinking diesel!) is helping to change the world by very small steps. I accept that all those companies persuading people they are buying green energy are clearly being conned by “Greenwash” unless their supply ceases when it is dark and no wind is blowing!

We have insulated our old solid wall house to the point where the cost of heating and cooking in our 4 bed detached house for 2 old pensioners is now less than £400 p.a. and thanks to the PV and Tesla Powerwall (prior to EV) the electricity down to £200 pa. I suspect it will rise with the I Pace but in the last 66 days we have only imported 6kwhs from the grid and that includes keeping the car fully charged. While our mileage has been very adversely effected by the lockdown, we have exported over 650 miles worth to the grid.

Now I did not invest all this money because I believe in the absurd “Climate Emergency” Cult but because it seemed to be the sensible thing to do.
SE Firenze Red, Oyster leather, glass roof, HUD, Air Suspension, delivered 6/19

Post Reply