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RESOLVED :'Unbalanced' front motor (drive unit) sound between 80-95 km/h

18K views 30 replies 13 participants last post by  I-Pacer 
#1 ·
As everyone knows, electric cars are very quiet while driving, but the electric motors still can be heard a little bit, they make a nice, soft, high pitch sound, in the background.

My experience with EV's is that this motor sound always is the sound of a very smooth and well balanced turning motor. Nice to hear, not annoying at all.

However, in my i-Pace I hear the front drive unit (motor+reduction box) turning sound as if it is unbalanced, a sound which best can be heard at speeds between 80-96 km/h. Instead of a nice 'whhrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr' kind of sound, it sounds more like 'whirrewhirrewhirrewhirrewhirre' - sorry for my effort to fonetically trying to express the sound :-D :-D

It reminds me of a washing machine in centrifuging stage, with a bit of unbalanced load. Not that loud, but the same kind of noise.

When I drive a constant speed of approx. 92km/h it is most clear to hear. When I lift the accellerator just lightly, letting the i-Pace coast a bit, without motor traction and without regenerating, the sound goes away. When I then lightly press the accellerator again, the sound is back again. When I accellerate firmly/fast, the sound also goes away and is replaced by a kind of low frequency buzz, accompanied by light vibrations in steering wheel and pedal.

Who recognises this? Any similar experiences?

The dealer has checked the drive shafts and found no issues. They did a short test drive and say what they hear is normal. However I don't think it is normal, other i-Paces I have driven did not seem to have this.

Also, it only happens after at least 10-15 km after a cold start, as if it only occurs when the transmission/reduction oil has warmed up.

I suspect that the problem is caused in the transmission/reduction part of the front drive unit (EDU). The motor itself seems to be ok, the car drives perfectly for the rest. It is only this annoying sound that takes away a bit of the pleaure and ease.

Maybe the EDU needs to be replaced...?
 
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#2 ·
#4 ·
ryzvy said:
Unfortunately I have something similar, but at lower speeds (0-35mph or on deceleration). I posted about this on the US forum https://www.i-paceforum.com/forum/611-2018-jaguar-i-pace-likes-dislikes/2421-motor-noise-low-speeds.html but the consensus was that it's a normal sound. I don't think it is. I uploaded a video as well in that post where you can hear the sound. Is this what you are hearing as well?
Hi ryzvy, the sound in the video is not what I mean with the unbalanced sound that I am hearing when driving at constant speeds. In your video I clearly hear the normal sound of the motors when accellerating.
 
#5 ·
Getjaggywithit said:
I have the same/similar, be it at 110/120 when going straight or at lower speeds (90ish) with bends combined with (slight) acceleration.
It seems you hear the same kind of sound as I do. I also have indeed when making bends combined with accelerations that the 'unbalanced sound' changes/disappears and comes back depending on the part of the bend made.

What do you think: is this normal or not? Did you talk to the dealer about it?
 
#6 ·
Thanks, Martijn. Yes, the sound in my vehicle is only when accelerating or decelerating at lower speeds, not when driving at constant higher speeds. It's not a constant whirr though but more like a low whumpwhumpwhump sound. I don't recall hearing it in the vehicle that I test drove.
 
#7 ·
The speed indicates that it might come from unbalanced tire. I've noticed that it's worst between 80-100km. I had this kind of problem with X-type in cold weather. Our garage has heated floor and when the car stayed there, it's tires got warm spot which caused slight shutter/vibration noice in first 10 minutes of driving and fading away when tires warmed up evenly. Or it might be a joint in the shaft because it goes away when lifting off.
 
#8 ·
MjrPayne said:
The speed indicates that it might come from unbalanced tire. I've noticed that it's worst between 80-100km. I had this kind of problem with X-type in cold weather. Our garage has heated floor and when the car stayed there, it's tires got warm spot which caused slight shutter/vibration noice in first 10 minutes of driving and fading away when tires warmed up evenly. Or it might be a joint in the shaft because it goes away when lifting off.
It is definitely not the tires. Recently the tires were changed for winter tires, on the same rims, and the sound is still exactly the same.

It must be the shafts or the joints or the reduction gears.
 
#10 ·
MartijnEV said:
Getjaggywithit said:
I have the same/similar, be it at 110/120 when going straight or at lower speeds (90ish) with bends combined with (slight) acceleration.
It seems you hear the same kind of sound as I do. I also have indeed when making bends combined with accelerations that the 'unbalanced sound' changes/disappears and comes back depending on the part of the bend made.

What do you think: is this normal or not? Did you talk to the dealer about it?
I don't consider this is normal. Also, I dismiss this being the tires; have the same experience on both winter and summer tires, and sound should be audible across wider range of speeds.

Did not talk to dealer about this yet. Will do next week or so, combined with another complaint: one in two restarts the car goes to default settings (audio, dash layout etc) after sw was updated mid Jan.
 
#11 ·
Great news! My I-PACE has been repaired. The front motor now sound normal (i.e. it is now very quiet). Very happy!
 
#12 ·
MartijnEV said:
Great news! My I-PACE has been repaired. The front motor now sound normal (i.e. it is now very quiet). Very happy!
Congratulations! What was the cause of the noise / fault? CQ what did they repair?
 
#13 ·
Getjaggywithit said:
I have the same/similar, be it at 110/120 when going straight or at lower speeds (90ish) with bends combined with (slight) acceleration.
I love my iPace, but I experience a similar sensation, which i find super annoying:

at constant speeds of 90-100 km i feel a vibration, which can be best described as driving over damaged tarmac. It also appears with fast acceleration at lower speeds.

My hypothesis was that it was the result of unbalanced pirellis, but replacing them did not solve the issue.

Then the dealer assured me it was normal and a result of 400hp on the drive train.

I don't agree with them, because why then would it appear at a constant speed?

Does anyone else recognize this?
 
#15 ·
MartijnEV said:
Great news! My I-PACE has been repaired. The front motor now sound normal (i.e. it is now very quiet). Very happy!
Martijn,

Curious did you also have the vibrations or only the noise? This week the flying doctor finally will come to check the vibrations (and noise) in my car. Also Dutch owner btw and was already looking for owners with the same issues!
Btw, what did they do to fix it ?
 
#16 ·
pivoking and larzzzzz and getjaggywithit and Bart,

To answer your question as to what was done in February to repair my car: full replacement of the front EDU (=electric drive unit, i.e. electric motor and reduction gears+differential in a single unit).

However: you won't believe this, but it's true: the problems came back. After 6000 km I now have exactly the same issues as with the first EDU.

I experience the same things (again) as you describe:
- annoying "jingjingjingjing" metallic irregular noise as if the front axles and/or gear unit turn unbalanced, most noticeable between 84-102 km/h, only when EDU (oil?) is warm
- unusual vibrations coming from the front of the car, felt in steering wheel and pedals, during accellerations
- similar vibrations at constant speeds around 120-130 km/h
- slight hickups when steering around a corner, as if something blocks the steering occasionally
- everything seems to get worse the more km's I drive

The dealer has had the car in for service. They couldn't do anything, as the EDU already was replaced, the conclusion of JLR is that the car needs to be thoroughly investigated by JLR national importer technicians and the factory.
A week has passed since then, I'm still waiting to receive a message for making the appointment with the Dutch JLR national organisation in Beesd.

As things seem to get worse, I get more worried every trip. Previous time they found that the EDU oil was extremely dirty due to preliminary mechanial wear of the gears. Seems to be happening again with this new EDU as well.

I suspect the issue is not caused by the EDU itself, but by the subframe, i.e. the parts where the EDU is mounted to. These parts are pressed aluminium parts, maybe misalignment due to wrong aluminium pressings and/or welds is the real cause.

Hope this will be resolved soon. Everything is great about my I-Pace, except this... and it seems now reading your messages that I am not the only one...

pivoking - can you tell me more about this 'flying doctor'? Who is that and who arranged that, dealer or NSO? I'm sure this person also needs to investigate my car. Don't understand why they didn't arrange this (yet) as well for my I-Pace. Will call dealer tomorrow.
 
#17 ·
Hi Martijn thanks!
I was really hoping that the flying doctor already diagnosed your car because my dealer simply states: nothing we can do about this, because we don't know what the problem is.
The flying doctor is the specialist from JLR. And in I think he is from JLR NL and he travels to many dealers to help them with issues they cannot resolve.
My vibrations have become less (very annoying because today I am driving with the doctor). Now mainly noticeable at lower speeds (+50). And I am confident that my drive train makes a low humming noise that reminds me of an ICE car... the dealer demo did not hum if I recall correctly.
The electric drive train should hardly make any low noise right ?!
 
#18 ·
That is correct, this unbalance-sound/deep vibration is not normal for an EV. (and I have driven many different EV's!)

It is also not normal for an I-Pace, as I have driven several other I-Paces, sometimes for multiple days and a couple of 100 km's, and those I-Paces didn't have this sound/vibrations issue.

What you should really make sure is that you do the test drives with the JLR engineer with a warmed up front EDU - i.e. the oil in the front EDU gearbox has to be warmed up. A cold I-Pace, e.g. after a night rest, does appear not to have the sound/vibration issues. The sound/vibrations only start to appear when the drive train/front EDU is warm. So make sure you make a relatively ong drive, at least 50-60 km's, before testing and evaluating the issue.
 
#19 ·
Okay, Thanks Martijn. I find it to be pretty difficult because the noise is something of which I think it should not be there. But I don't have a very wide EV experience and it's difficult to remember if the sound has developed over time. I am sure my car has a flaw, but the dealer seems to think that it is nothing and is part of my car. Totally unacceptable. Evenmore because the dealer also experienced the vribrations in my car.
So I am glad that they send somebody from JLR and hopefully we can determine the issue. But I do not experience the vribrations every trip :( Sound, basically every trip. Not a very hard noise, but I am almost certain it should not be there.
 
#21 ·
Mine is going in for service end of this month, hopefully they can now fix it fully, including the root cause of the issue.
 
#22 ·
Great news after all!
The root cause is finally found: one of the two front drive shafts was stuck in the joint. A production fault. So the shaft stayed straight where it should have bent. This caused - due to the wrong angles of the shaft coupling on the gears - a high tension on the differential/gear box in the EDU. Hence the annoying unbalanced sounds, the unusual vibrations, and the extremely high wear of the gear box/EDU.
The dealer replaced both drive shafts ánd the EDU this week, so my I-Pace now has a completely brand new front drive system. I picked up my I-Pace today and....: I am a very happy man now. All annoying sounds and vibrations have disappeared. The I-Pace now drives silently and perfectly, as perfect as never before. Excellent service by JLR in the end.

One additional comment: I understood that this issue could only occur on I-Paces with steel springs, due to the fixed height. So if you have air suspension this might not be applicable to your car. But I'm not 100% sure abou that.
 
#23 ·
I'm curious about the sound you're mentioning. Sometimes when I hit the floor, I think my front engine is vibrating. Not clearly enough to say it's an unbalanced engine or something, but maybe it's an upcoming problem?
 
#24 ·
So question: how silent should the iPace drive? Because I can also hear the ringing (whirring?) of the engines quite well. Do you hear the engines at all?

I did notice in the model 3 and kona from my colleague's that those seem more silent then the iPace. And I think they should not be?
 
#26 ·
I have also noticed a strange sound lately, and wonder if it could be something similar, or if this might be something else.

Hopefully you can hear my noise here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1rmp8fet5nif6ay/I-pace%20noise.wav?dl=0

Unfortunately there is a lot of wind-noise here since I am driving at a speed of 80-90 km/h, but if you use a headset and a somewhat high volume, you should be able to hear a faint klirrrrrrrrrr-ing noise in this clip. Not in the first few seconds, but a bit on and off during the rest.

Can you confirm if this is the same noise, or not?

To best describe my noise, it is more like a klirrrrr-ing noise that only appears when the car is driving with quite heavy load on the engine.
I feel it must come from the engine itself, or maybe the drivetrain?

Usually this only occurs when driving up a long steep hill with high speed, so the engine has to work hard and constantly upwards.
A perfect place (where I first noticed the noise) was up from a under-water tunnel, with a constant speed of 85 km/h.
Any other speed or power, and the noise dissapear. And also the same speed on a flat surface has no noise.
Only a high speed (80+ km/h), AND a high power output (to accelerate or keep up the speed uphill)
And it seems to only be there when the engine is warm as well. (but difficult to tell for sure since there are few hills nearby suitable to test this)

Anyone else heard something similar to this?
 
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