Tesla - Oh Dear..

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emgf
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Re: Tesla - Oh Dear..

Post by emgf » Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:15 pm

Chewy wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:52 am
Jaguar should take heed of this.

There is a rumour put out by a member on the forum that Jaguar are to relax the thermal management on the I-Pace to achieve a gain of 20 to 30 miles in the summer giving a range for most people of 300 miles?

Well, as the norm for drivers on the forum is around 240 to 250 miles, this increase in range would have to be substantially more than that to give 300 miles.

People purchased the I-Pace knowing the range of the car. Jaguar say a realistic range is 230 to 240 miles.

The battery management in the car looks after the battery by putting tight control limits on the temperature range that the battery is allowed to operate at. Tesla uses 18degC up to 55degC as it’s acceptable control range. The I-Pace is much tighter than this, though Jaguar has not stated fully what it is. In no way can this control regime be considered “over cooling”.

Clearly tighter temperature control of the battery requires more energy to maintain it, and hence a hit on range. The BMS has to work harder if the car is pushed harder, hence the hit on range. My driving style for range has the effect of negating some of the hard work the BMS is put to in trying to maintain a close tolerance battery temperature. Acceleration is one of the biggest killers of range, it consumes vast amounts of energy, and rapidly heats the battery. Keeping your acceleration to a slow rate will negate both these factors and extend range.

For Jaguar to reduce the BMS control could very well open a big can of worms later in the life of the I-Pace.

I would rather stay where I am with the BMS on this issue and accept that the car does what it does.
Ok but we were promised a 100 KW charging rate and JLR has to deliver it on way or the other , don’t you think so ?
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Paul J.
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Re: Tesla - Oh Dear..

Post by Paul J. » Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:22 pm

They have. :roll:

First world problems!

Destination charging is your friend. I spent last week on a tour of the UK and planned my hotels stops at places where there were rapid chargers. No need to charge on the move. 8-)
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ChrisMc
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Re: Tesla - Oh Dear..

Post by ChrisMc » Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:07 am

Paul J. wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:22 pm
They have. :roll:

First world problems!

Destination charging is your friend. I spent last week on a tour of the UK and planned my hotels stops at places where there were rapid chargers. No need to charge on the move. 8-)
That's what I try and do too. So far so good, another long trip starting today so we will see. :D
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nipri
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Re: Tesla - Oh Dear..

Post by nipri » Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:38 am

I am off to Bath this weekend. The hotel I will be staying called Bailbrook House has a Polar Plus Rapid Charge which is perfect.
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alex_haddock
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Re: Tesla - Oh Dear..

Post by alex_haddock » Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:07 am

Chewy wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:52 am
Jaguar should take heed of this.

There is a rumour put out by a member on the forum that Jaguar are to relax the thermal management on the I-Pace to achieve a gain of 20 to 30 miles in the summer giving a range for most people of 300 miles?

Well, as the norm for drivers on the forum is around 240 to 250 miles, this increase in range would have to be substantially more than that to give 300 miles.

People purchased the I-Pace knowing the range of the car. Jaguar say a realistic range is 230 to 240 miles.

The battery management in the car looks after the battery by putting tight control limits on the temperature range that the battery is allowed to operate at. Tesla uses 18degC up to 55degC as it’s acceptable control range. The I-Pace is much tighter than this, though Jaguar has not stated fully what it is. In no way can this control regime be considered “over cooling”.

Clearly tighter temperature control of the battery requires more energy to maintain it, and hence a hit on range. The BMS has to work harder if the car is pushed harder, hence the hit on range. My driving style for range has the effect of negating some of the hard work the BMS is put to in trying to maintain a close tolerance battery temperature. Acceleration is one of the biggest killers of range, it consumes vast amounts of energy, and rapidly heats the battery. Keeping your acceleration to a slow rate will negate both these factors and extend range.

For Jaguar to reduce the BMS control could very well open a big can of worms later in the life of the I-Pace.

I would rather stay where I am with the BMS on this issue and accept that the car does what it does.
Mentioned before but one of the questionnaires on the Advisory Council asked if you'd prefer greater range for reduced performance. I replied absolutely not (unless you could toggle the setting as the user). It may be that to preserve battery life AND increase range then the other variable that gets hit would be power output.
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Thincat
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Re: Tesla - Oh Dear..

Post by Thincat » Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:31 am

alex_haddock wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:07 am
Chewy wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:52 am
Jaguar should take heed of this.

There is a rumour put out by a member on the forum that Jaguar are to relax the thermal management on the I-Pace to achieve a gain of 20 to 30 miles in the summer giving a range for most people of 300 miles?

Well, as the norm for drivers on the forum is around 240 to 250 miles, this increase in range would have to be substantially more than that to give 300 miles.

People purchased the I-Pace knowing the range of the car. Jaguar say a realistic range is 230 to 240 miles.

The battery management in the car looks after the battery by putting tight control limits on the temperature range that the battery is allowed to operate at. Tesla uses 18degC up to 55degC as it’s acceptable control range. The I-Pace is much tighter than this, though Jaguar has not stated fully what it is. In no way can this control regime be considered “over cooling”.

Clearly tighter temperature control of the battery requires more energy to maintain it, and hence a hit on range. The BMS has to work harder if the car is pushed harder, hence the hit on range. My driving style for range has the effect of negating some of the hard work the BMS is put to in trying to maintain a close tolerance battery temperature. Acceleration is one of the biggest killers of range, it consumes vast amounts of energy, and rapidly heats the battery. Keeping your acceleration to a slow rate will negate both these factors and extend range.

For Jaguar to reduce the BMS control could very well open a big can of worms later in the life of the I-Pace.

I would rather stay where I am with the BMS on this issue and accept that the car does what it does.
Mentioned before but one of the questionnaires on the Advisory Council asked if you'd prefer greater range for reduced performance. I replied absolutely not (unless you could toggle the setting as the user). It may be that to preserve battery life AND increase range then the other variable that gets hit would be power output.
It's all very well for Chewy to advocate a reduction in range but he is capable of achieving 300 miles, what about us mear mortals who can only get 230? ;) I like the idea of a toggle so that on the very few occasions when I need the maximum possible range I could do so.
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Chewy
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Re: Tesla - Oh Dear..

Post by Chewy » Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:33 am

alex_haddock wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:07 am

Mentioned before but one of the questionnaires on the Advisory Council asked if you'd prefer greater range for reduced performance. I replied absolutely not (unless you could toggle the setting as the user). It may be that to preserve battery life AND increase range then the other variable that gets hit would be power output.
Fully with you on that one. The I-Pace is quite capable of adding 20 to 30 miles to its range simply by the way the car is driven. There would be no need to alter the way the battery is managed, just better management of the way the power is put down.

My Tesla had the option of setting “Range Mode”, it also had another mode that calmed the performance of the car, where acceleration was slowed to 8 seconds for 0~60mph. These used together would easily increase the range of the car on longer distance trips, but could be turned off when range was not required and performance was returned to “normal”. This is what the I-Pace is missing. I have learned to replicate this functionality and gain that range when needed, but still not lose the performance that the car is capable of when needed.
Last edited by Chewy on Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.


Chewy
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Re: Tesla - Oh Dear..

Post by Chewy » Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:37 am

Thincat wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:31 am

It's all very well for Chewy to advocate a reduction in range but he is capable of achieving 300 miles, what about us mear mortals who can only get 230? ;) I like the idea of a toggle so that on the very few occasions when I need the maximum possible range I could do so.
Ah, your post popped up before mine above :-)

I am all for the toggle idea of giving range rather than performance, similar to that provided by Tesla. What I am not so confident about is allowing the battery temperature control have a wider band to achieve it.
Last edited by Chewy on Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.


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mjc
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Re: Tesla - Oh Dear..

Post by mjc » Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:47 am

nipri wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:38 am
I am off to Bath this weekend. The hotel I will be staying called Bailbrook House has a Polar Plus Rapid Charge which is perfect.
Its a nice place, enjoy!
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Goshdarnit
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Re: Tesla - Oh Dear..

Post by Goshdarnit » Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:20 pm

nipri wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:38 am
I am off to Bath this weekend. The hotel I will be staying called Bailbrook House has a Polar Plus Rapid Charge which is perfect.
Wasn’t that the old Air Traffic Control College I a previous life? If so, it’s a lovely building! Have fun.

I’m also on another road trip this weekend. This time it’s a weekend one up north where we’re staying a couple of nights. One in Nairn and on on the shores of Loch Ness. It’s 460 miles total, so fingers crossed that I’ve truly sussed our ChargePlace Scotland! Actually will be using one Engenie charger this time but it’s the same eVolt as CPS use. Luckily the new style not the old ones, which is why I’m stopping there. The others are all that same new eVolt button the CPS network. They are starting to spring up all over the place. CPS are expanding.


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