Home Charging

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suisse
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Re: Home Charging

Post by suisse » Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:19 pm

So the folks related to the electricity company came by, and they recommended directly a DC charger (KEBA KeContact P30):

https://www.keba.com/en/emobility/produ ... s/b-series or PDF: https://www.keba.com/web/downloads/e-mo ... att_EN.pdf

At 3x 25A (and 3x 400V into the building) they claim that it can deliver 17 kW minus whatever the rest of the house eats.... thus that sounds pretty good (and better than a Juice Booster or SETEC device).

Lets see, if those numbers really add up though ;)
MY20 FFI Corris Grey Black Out Edition; delivered 2019-08-22; Incontrol S19B_19.40.4-436082; Telematics 16.2 (still visible in UI with S19B); SOTA enabled & updated


d111112
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Re: Home Charging

Post by d111112 » Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:45 pm

suisse wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:19 pm
So the folks related to the electricity company came by, and they recommended directly a DC charger (KEBA KeContact P30):

https://www.keba.com/en/emobility/produ ... s/b-series or PDF: https://www.keba.com/web/downloads/e-mo ... att_EN.pdf

At 3x 25A (and 3x 400V into the building) they claim that it can deliver 17 kW minus whatever the rest of the house eats.... thus that sounds pretty good (and better than a Juice Booster or SETEC device).

Lets see, if those numbers really add up though ;)
Are you sure that the KEBA KeContact P30 is a DC-Charger? Maybe I'm wrong but that looks like a 3-phase AC-charger but no DC charger. The I-Paces are currently equipped with a 1-phase AC-DC converter für AC charging. You are able to achieve max. 7,4kw (32A 1-phase connection: if it is allowed in your country to use 32A on one phase for charging a car) using this type of wallbox.
I Pace EV400 S, fuji white, air susp; 18“ MY19, delivered 02/2019
H228 Update / IMC: S19B_19.40...| Telematics: 17.2 (J8A2-70712-AX)
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suisse
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Re: Home Charging

Post by suisse » Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:17 am

> Are you sure that the KEBA KeContact P30 is a DC-Charger?

I wasn't sure (website does not really say). The electrician was sure it was DC as "we only install DC, we do not do the old thing".
He was wrong...... it indeed is a 3 phase AC charger, hence the 17 kW number (3 phase * 400V * 25A ==> sqrt(3) * 400 * 25 = 17kW)
So instead they now want to offer a evtun charger (6.6kW) instead for quite a bit more. Not going for that, too slow and almost same price as SETEC 10kW device.

Funny, as these are the folks from the electricity company and clearly have no real clue what they are trying to sell.... bad bad..


Hence, contacted several different electricians, will be getting two next week.

One will even bring a SETEC device for demonstration: https://setec-power-schweiz.ch

Which sounds like a much more knowledgeable person as they come with that ;)

Note that they have the, here wellknown, mobile (10kW) charger, a wall mount (20kW) and even 50 kW and 100kW tower models on the site, nice!

We'll see what they can actually install though.... wonder what the 20kW one goes for and if that can fit; we'll hear next week :)
MY20 FFI Corris Grey Black Out Edition; delivered 2019-08-22; Incontrol S19B_19.40.4-436082; Telematics 16.2 (still visible in UI with S19B); SOTA enabled & updated


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suisse
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Re: Home Charging

Post by suisse » Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:01 am

So, a little status update in our hunt for a solution for emobility home charging in switzerland (this should hit google search queries for others searching :) )

We are ignoring AC charging as it is just too slow (and we might come back home and then want to go somewhere else). Living in a bit more remote area does not help as there are no charging points in the area (except a lidl some 40km away with a 50kW charger).

Hence... the search for DC chargers for home use:

We found effectively 3 reasonable solutions (reasonable, not cheap, think 7000 - 13000 range including install);

* SETEC - https://setec-power-schweiz.ch
- Chinese made, but feels/looks industrial quality thus no negative
- Swiss distribution thus good local support (from what we see)
- good and knowledgeable sales/support from our experience
- 10kW portable can be 'cheap', we excluded it because it did not fit our requirements (and still 9 hours to charge full too), might still be useful for travel though.
- but the 20kW wallbox is big and heavy (100kg) which gives weight concerns on the wall it would be mounted to, next to it being half a meter deep thus taking space from the parking space (and it is not that the i-pace is that big, a few cm extra is always good ;)

* Greenmotion - https://greenmotion.ch
- Swiss developed and Swiss made
- smaller box than SETEC and looks quite good.
- 11kw and 22kw variants
- Bit more expensive than SETEC and they have a 'service fee' of 170/year for backend services (though they are discussing reducing that price for private use...).

* Ecotap - http://www.partino.ch/e-ladestationen/ and ecotap.ch
- Dutch developed (not sure where they build them)
- New contender: they have a deal with Jaguar in the Netherlands/Benelux... which starting next week will be available to Switzerland too! (Through Etavis, which previously resold the Copper and Juicebooster options)
- DC15 (requires 3x 20A), DC20 (requires 3x 25A) and DC30 (requires 3x 40A) connections
- Swiss-prepared with "FI-Typ B, die Notansteuerung fürs EW" (aka that the electricity company can say "reduce/stop using power")
- Looks good, good deal
- Very recent deal though, might take 5 weeks from now to get it installed.... no price yet, but hopefully next week more.


Thus in the mean time, fortunately we can charge the car at work when it arrives next week, and we'll have to sneak into the Lidl to top it off to full if needed :)
MY20 FFI Corris Grey Black Out Edition; delivered 2019-08-22; Incontrol S19B_19.40.4-436082; Telematics 16.2 (still visible in UI with S19B); SOTA enabled & updated


TeslaDriver
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Re: Home Charging

Post by TeslaDriver » Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:32 pm

suisse wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:01 am
We are ignoring AC charging as it is just too slow (and we might come back home and then want to go somewhere else).
I'm sure there are indeed such use-cases, but it reads rather like "range anxiety" ?

For that to actually be an issue you need to come home "empty" and then need to go out "soon".

I very rarely come home empty - in fact less than 20% is quite unusual, if I am out of range and I stop to charge then I charge "a bit more just in case" ... and then I hit traffic / roadworks so consumption is less than planned ... so in practice I actually get home > 20%

I do come home and go out ... but very rarely such that I have not enough energy.

Plugging in gives me 22 MPH / 35 KPH. So even if I am only home for an hour I gain that much.

In my case I also have a second car, so chances are good that "the other car" would have charge in such a rare (for me) emergency.

I'm not sure it helps in the case of iPace but do you have 3-phase installed for Residential properties in Switzerland? It is rare in the UK but I gather much more common on the continent.


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suisse
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Re: Home Charging

Post by suisse » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:20 pm

> I'm sure there are indeed such use-cases, but it reads rather like "range anxiety" ?

I'll won't deny that it mostly is. But .....

> For that to actually be an issue you need to come home "empty" and then need to go out "soon".

And that will happen. With ~300km range, even Geneva to Chur will be 400km already. Milan to Chur is 200km.

Like many other Swiss, we often do trips to do shopping in Germany (read: Konstanz) thus 150km one way, 300km return, thus should be able to do that on a single at home charge, come home and still go do other things that same day. Kids don't help either btw, they want to go to all kinds of places all the time ;)

So while you likely will hit up a supercharge on such a round trip, there is a likely chance to come back at 20% or less, and ABC... so having the car ready for the next trip is then a good thing.

Also note that AC chargers (including install) are quoted at 3500CHF minimum and many quoted more than that, thus doubling/tripling but then for the next ~20 years being able to 'fastcharge' at 20kW or more (thus from close-to-empty to 80% = 72kW / 20kW =) <4 hours.... spread that money over 10 or 20 years and suddenly it becomes rather worthy to do so.

Also take into account that public fast chargers are quite pricey too (almost as much as gas pricing in some cases).



> Plugging in gives me 22 MPH / 35 KPH. So even if I am only home for an hour I gain that much.

35 KM gets us out of the valley..... and I am really wondering with all the hills here how much regen will give and up hill will take, time will tell :)

> In my case I also have a second car, so chances are good that "the other car" would have charge in such a rare (for me) emergency.

Yes, we are keeping the good old ICEr just in case (in .ch one can get insurance for the expensive/heavier car and then register a second/third/etc car on the same plate and swap the plates between cars).

Also in case the new fancy car has issues as we can read about in these forums ;)

> I'm not sure it helps in the case of iPace but do you have 3-phase installed for Residential properties in Switzerland? It is rare in the UK but I gather much more common on the continent.

Standard Swiss connections are 3x 25A @ 400V ... and I have been told that 3x 40A @ 400V can easily be done, just need the cost of upgrading the metering installation.

Note though that we live in the 'countryside' thus there is also a lot of heavy power available in this area, but 3x 25A is default in most homes.

Hence why the single-phase charger really sucks, but even if it was 3-phase, it might have been 11kW in the car which is not that fast either.
MY20 FFI Corris Grey Black Out Edition; delivered 2019-08-22; Incontrol S19B_19.40.4-436082; Telematics 16.2 (still visible in UI with S19B); SOTA enabled & updated


TeslaDriver
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Re: Home Charging

Post by TeslaDriver » Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:42 am

suisse wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:20 pm
AC chargers (including install) are quoted at 3500CHF minimum
Ouch!

I certainly can't argue with having a faster D/C charger, just assumed they would be way too expensive ... if I was coming home low and chance of going out again that day - i.e. arrival time was early in the day ... I would Supercharge extra, but as you point out that is expensive (relative to home charging) if you do it often

Destination chargers, whilst shopping / out-with-the-kids, are also options ... in a few years such things will be commonplace but at this time early adopters have to make choices
I am really wondering with all the hills here how much regen will give and up hill will take
I have seen reports of 70%, or better, for "regen -> battery -> back to wheels".

I think https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ should give you some idea - seeing what the consumption is for your hilly area (compared to a flat region). Its data for iPace is Beta I think, so it might be that the Regen data is not accurate enough. I expect iPace regen is as good as Tesla, so maybe double check the data against Tesla (for which ABRP does have lots of data) and see what that differential is between "flat" and "hilly" to give some indication on whether it is likely iPace data is giving similar differential, if not it should perform better than ABPR suggests.
in .ch one can get insurance for the expensive/heavier car and then register a second/third/etc car on the same plate and swap the plates between cars
Amazing what one learns on forums!
Standard Swiss connections are 3x 25A @ 400V ...
Hence why the single-phase charger really sucks, but even if it was 3-phase, it might have been 11kW in the car which is not that fast either
This is iPace forum ... but ... would you consider an EV that has faster onboard A/C charger?

Or ... like underpants ... have 2x EV ... one on, driving, and one off - charging? :D


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suisse
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Re: Home Charging

Post by suisse » Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:44 am

TeslaDriver wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:42 am
I certainly can't argue with having a faster D/C charger, just assumed they would be way too expensive
Did you look at the pricetag on the car? :)

IMHO even a 10k investment will pay off for a car like this, and likely the one after.

A 50 kW charger at home would be silly IMHO; but a 15kW or 20kW one would definitely pay off over 10 and definitely 20 years of use.
The standards for these connections are unlikely to change, thus I am fairly confident it will last for such a duration.

Especially the convenience of it all.
Destination chargers, whilst shopping / out-with-the-kids, are also options ... in a few years such things will be commonplace but at this time early adopters have to make choices
Shopping is a bit further away from us, would have to go shopping inbound and outbound every time to catch up then ;)
I am really wondering with all the hills here how much regen will give and up hill will take
I have seen reports of 70%, or better, for "regen -> battery -> back to wheels".
Nice, we'll see when the car is handed over on thursday and will be doing a lot of testing.
I think https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ should give you some idea
mmmm, just plotted Chur - Andermatt:

Planned consumption: -19 Wh/km Elevation: 1101 m
Planned speed: 77 km/h Speed limit: 80 km/h

Return:

Planned consumption: -698 Wh/km Elevation: 927 m
Planned speed: 80 km/h Speed limit: 80 km/h

Versus ModelX:

Planned consumption: 709 Wh/km Elevation: 1120 m
Planned speed: 77 km/h Speed limit: 80 km/h

Interesting (note the minus sign for the I-pace version...), I am sort of doubting those numbers, but we'll run that route a few times to test it out ;)
in .ch one can get insurance for the expensive/heavier car and then register a second/third/etc car on the same plate and swap the plates between cars
Amazing what one learns on forums!
This trick exists primarily for those folks who have a SUV/offroad vehicle for winter time or when they go actually into the mountains, and then have a sporty car for doing long distance / city driving. You pay for the expensive one and only use one at the time thus perfect.

It is also really great for the avid car collectors, of which our area has.... too many, which is great to see all the nice special editions cars actually in action; these folks just take a set of plates, walk around in their garage and plop them onto the car they want to drive that day. No hassle and very flexible.
Standard Swiss connections are 3x 25A @ 400V ...
Hence why the single-phase charger really sucks, but even if it was 3-phase, it might have been 11kW in the car which is not that fast either
This is iPace forum ... but ... would you consider an EV that has faster onboard A/C charger?
I like the inside of my car to stay dry when it rains and I open a door (Model X wingdoors) or open a boot (Model 3) :)

Build quality of a Tesla is too sucky for a car of that priceclass, let alone missing many many features (e.g. useful things like a HUD).
Yes, Autopilot is nice, but mostly not sufficient and thus dangerous and not totally legal in many places.

I-pace is a driver's car.... and still a real car, not a ipad-on-wheels....

Many other cars are restricted to 1-phase chargers too, 3-phase are rare and often impact the price of the car. DC is the future and is less hassle in the long run.
Or ... like underpants ... have 2x EV ... one on, driving, and one off - charging? :D
sticking to a good old ICE backup car and the jag for the time being..... but likely the ICE gets replaced with a EV at one point too (likely a small thing) and then suddenly a Home Charger that can charge quicker (read: DC) also makes sense as one can unplug it after a few hours and already have a good amount of charge. (though, might have to do that in the middle of the night of course... oh well :) )


Currently very much looking forward to picking up the cat on Thursday, dealer is making comments that it is a really good color combo, we'll see when we get it ;)
MY20 FFI Corris Grey Black Out Edition; delivered 2019-08-22; Incontrol S19B_19.40.4-436082; Telematics 16.2 (still visible in UI with S19B); SOTA enabled & updated


SEPS
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Re: Home Charging

Post by SEPS » Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:09 am

apologies for bringing this topic back to the Juice Net app
I have an eco mini pro but still cannot get the juice Net app to use Time of Use correctly with my IPace
each time it errors out as if it cannot wake the IPace at the allotted time

Earlier brownbottle posted to say he has got it working - anyone else
Thx
SEPS


Goshdarnit
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Re: Home Charging

Post by Goshdarnit » Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:48 am

SEPS wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:09 am
apologies for bringing this topic back to the Juice Net app
I have an eco mini pro but still cannot get the juice Net app to use Time of Use correctly with my IPace
each time it errors out as if it cannot wake the IPace at the allotted time

Earlier brownbottle posted to say he has got it working - anyone else
Thx
SEPS
You could try this technique, but if you have h228 it shouldn’t be necessary.



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