I-Pace range

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anorak
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Re: I-Pace range

Post by anorak » Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:16 pm

jason.birchall wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:50 pm
anorak wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:12 pm
jason.birchall wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:56 am
Does anyone have the information that informs why range increases when Aircon is turned on and decreases when turned off? Also has anyone proven a difference in range and consumption with actual testing?
Can't say I've ever had the range estimate increase when the A/C is turned on in any of my EVs?

The AAA report linked on the previous page of this thread is based on actual testing. It's all done on a dynamometer in a controlled temperature environment rather than on the road. I imagine there would be just too many variables with road testing to give accurate comparisons between different car models (wind, elevation, humidity, driver input etc.).

I haven't had the i-Pace for long enough yet (perhaps others can comment) but the results for the LEAF are pretty much spot on with my experience over the course of a year.
Thanks for the response. Our range on the GOM changes by 10 to 20 miles when we toggle Aircon, would be interesting to understand the rules/logic behind this estimation.
If your range estimate goes up when you turn on the A/C it must be a glitch in the software?

Fiddling with various elements of cabin comfort (climate control, heated seats, heated wheel) in mine all have the same effect - turning them on reduced the range.

One thing I did notice as I've posted elsewhere (but can't remember where I'm afraid - an age thing) was that the fan speed had a bigger impact than anything else. From a 230 mile starting point with everything turned off It lost roughly 20 miles for every notch up on speed. I assume that an increase in fan speed also causes more drain from the heating / cooling system to maintain a set temperature of the air as it flows more quickly?
I Pace EV400 S, Caesium blue, Oyster leather, 18" wheels, MY19, delivered 01/2019
IMC: S19A_19.20.4-363281 || Telematics: 14.2


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anorak
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Re: I-Pace range

Post by anorak » Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:12 pm

Also noticed a big discrepancy between the battery state of charge % display and the energy consumption readouts on both the car's display and the Jaguar Remote app.

I did 62 miles today with the charge dropping from 51% to 15%, so 36% used. This suggests a total range of 172 miles (62/36 x 100).

However the app reported my energy consumption as being 2.55mi/kWh which would give a range of 206 miles from the accepted usable 81kWh.

The car's consumption readout was 39.6kWh/100 miles which equates to 2.53mi/kWh so pretty much identical to the app.

So either I've only got around 68kWh of usable battery or (hopefully) the state of charge % readout drops disproportionately when it's below 50% compared to when it's above this level.

I know this used to happen to a lesser degree in the LEAF. Anyone else noticed a more rapid decrease in battery % readout as the charge gets lower?

I had a 2001 AMG Mercedes and the fuel gauge used to read half full when there was only a quarter of a tank left but I'd hoped technology had moved on a bit since then!
I Pace EV400 S, Caesium blue, Oyster leather, 18" wheels, MY19, delivered 01/2019
IMC: S19A_19.20.4-363281 || Telematics: 14.2


Bart
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Re: I-Pace range

Post by Bart » Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:41 pm

anorak wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:12 pm
Anyone else noticed a more rapid decrease in battery % readout as the charge gets lower?
No. Recently I did a 200 km trip, with a battery range of 250km. When i arrived at my destination I had 20 km of range left. The 30 km of "ghost consumption" was evenly distributed along the trip (all highway).


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MartijnEV
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Re: I-Pace range

Post by MartijnEV » Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:19 pm

This week I had a loanee i-Pace for two days as my own i-Pace was at the dealer for service.

This loaner i-Pace had a malfunctioning energy consumption sensor. As a result the Consumption History screen in InControl showed 0 kWh consumption at all trips in the past couple of weeks. Also while driving the Actual Consumption readout on the MyEV screen shows 0 kWh/100 km, constantly.

However...: the GoM works normally, and charging works normally. The battery can normally charge from any SOC to 100% SOC. The GoM indicates about 330km at fully charged battery, and descends normally while driving, all the way until very low SOC. (I drove 500km in those two days so lot of experience with this situation).

So: seen that the consumption indicator in InControl shows 0 kWh consumption, while the GoM works normally, can only mean one thing: there are multiple quite independent systems in the car that deal with consumption and SOC/range: at least one of those is the Battery Management System (BMS), which is still working fully on this loaner, otherwise charging would not have been possible and the GoM would not indicate a normal range, and the other the InControl system which connects to the drive system and BMS to make its own calculations on consumption and range etc.

So this could be the clarification why numbers in the In Control app not always are in line with the GoM and SOC indication on the dashboard. Could also be the reason why the InControl app shows incorrect values for charge speed (% charge per hour or km per hour).
The Netherlands
i-Pace S, Fuji White, panorama roof, 18” wheels, heated seats, interior ioniser, front fog lights
Build date: 7 Nov 2018 | Delivery: 3 Dec 2018 |Telematics: 15.2 | InControl: S18D | Maps: 8.30.95.153


ghost
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Re: I-Pace range

Post by ghost » Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:23 pm

The SOC % shown is not linear. Both the 100% and 0% contains much more energy than 1/100 (or 1/101 to be precise) of the usable battery (which according to Jaguar should be 84.7 kWh). In other words if the % meter was linear each % should be around 850Wh.

If you charge the I-Pace to 100% and start driving you will notice that it will take some time before the meter shifts to 99%. If you multiply the distance you have driven with the average consumption you will end up with some number closer to 3kWh.

When the car was tested in Portugal last summer they drove the car until it stopped. They reported around 10 km range after the display showed 0%. Also Jaguar stated to someone at this forum that the car has 10-15 km of range after it shows 0%.

In other words there seems to be around 3kWh at 100% and 3kWh at 0%. Between those number the meter might be linear, but each digit will contain less than the anticipated 850Wh making calculation difficult based on the consumed percentage of the battery.

Driving from 100% down to around 50% however might give a reasonable calcualtion of range given that the 99%-1% interval is approximately linear.


DougTheMac
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Re: I-Pace range

Post by DougTheMac » Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:57 pm

On the question of SoC linearity, I posted this just before Xmas. No-one volunteered! :lol:
DougTheMac wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 8:41 pm
Does anyone have any data on how accurate/linear/consistent the indicated SoC is? We all assume it is accurate, because it’s the only info we have.
Estimating SoC of a Li battery is not at all easy. Voltage is a very poor indication. I think you have to integrate the current over time to get the coulombs in/out (because a battery stores coulombs = no of electrons, not kW-hr as such) and then correct for voltage and temperature to try to estimate kW-hr remaining.
And, of course, Jag don’t give us access to a KW-hr figure, just %SoC; with the “known unknowns” of the buffers top and bottom to further confuse things.
So, the only way I can see anyone being able to calibrate this would be to start at 100% SoC, preconditioned, and repeatedly drive a circuit of perhaps 10 miles as consistently as possible until the battery is near-exhausted and <10M range at the end of the last lap (and, of course, logging SoC for each lap).
Any volunteers, for the good of the community? It will only take 5 hours out of your life...

FWIIW, I would expect Jag deliberately to make it a bit non-linear, such that is a bit pessimistic. Better to have range anxiety when you get to 30% SoC sooner than you expected, than to run out of charge because the indicated 15% remaining turns out to be 10%.

Any anecdotal evidence of this?
HSE Silicon Silver Pano Air+AD Oyster since 1Mar19
S18D_18.47.5-269316 & 14.2


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anorak
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Re: I-Pace range

Post by anorak » Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:37 pm

Thanks guys, what you all say makes sense. My GOM seems fairly consistent, albeit optimistic by around 10% for my driving and with the car only having covered 300 miles so far.

The SOC display is definitely not linear in the i-Pace or probably any other EV. On a fairly constant speed trip I used to get 25 miles out of the first 10% in the LEAF but only 13-15 miles for each 10% thereafter.

My issue is really with the difference in calculated range using the SOC reading vs. the energy consumption figures. There was a 20% variation between mine yesterday. Perhaps with the capacity 'buffers' at the top and bottom of the SOC I really only used 30% of the actual available battery capacity,despite what the SOC reported?

And your circuit challenge is definitely something I'd like to try DougTheMac. As soon as I get a slack day in the office and can slope off I'll give it a go and report back.
I Pace EV400 S, Caesium blue, Oyster leather, 18" wheels, MY19, delivered 01/2019
IMC: S19A_19.20.4-363281 || Telematics: 14.2


Jelle v/d Meer
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Re: I-Pace range

Post by Jelle v/d Meer » Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:21 pm

I just did my most efficient trip ever - only short trip 3.6km but achieved 189wh/km. The thing that concerns me is that the WLTP range of 470km comes with efficiency of 212wh/km but then doing the math of 84.7kW usable / 212wh/km I ONLY get 399.5km range and not 470km as that would require an efficiency of 180wh/km.

Below is the average of the 10% most and least efficient trips I have made as well as the overall average with all less than 5km trips excluded.

Capture2.JPG

I-pace S + HUD, Drive Pack, Light Oyster Sport Seats, Elec Tailgate, DAB+ & heated windshield I Ceasium Blue & 18" wheels


Bart
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Re: I-Pace range

Post by Bart » Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:36 pm

Jelle v/d Meer wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:21 pm
I just did my most efficient trip ever - only short trip 3.6km but achieved 189wh/km. The thing that concerns me is that the WLTP range of 470km comes with efficiency of 212wh/km but then doing the math of 84.7kW usable / 212wh/km I ONLY get 399.5km range and not 470km as that would require an efficiency of 180wh/km.
Don't forget, today was probably the warmest day with the I-pace in your possession. Wait until late spring / early summer arrives..
I guess the effect of outside temperature is way underestimated, not a 20% thing, but much much more.

I also did "my most efficient trip ever" today: 20.5 kwh/100 km, over 11 km. Outside temp: 11 degrees celsius.


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anorak
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Re: I-Pace range

Post by anorak » Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:42 pm

We seem to be averaging around 2.5 miles/kWh at the moment, which equates to 250Wh/km I think.

Our LEAF definitely varied by about 20% summer to winter, hopefully the I-Pace will show an even greater increase in the warm weather.
I Pace EV400 S, Caesium blue, Oyster leather, 18" wheels, MY19, delivered 01/2019
IMC: S19A_19.20.4-363281 || Telematics: 14.2


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