Help - charging speed.

Faults and Technical chat for the Jaguar I-Pace
E.C. Pottinger
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Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:34 pm
Location: Canada

Help - charging speed.

Post by E.C. Pottinger » Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:44 pm

Yes, I know I am posting as a Tesla fan but I think someone in another forum is trying to dish the I-Pace unfairly.

The claim is you can not at home fully recharge the I-Pace over-night. That does not seem right, at 240 VAC and 30 Amps or 7 KW, and with a 90 kWh battery that means 12 hours to fully charge. And most times you do not start from empty anyway.

Have I got it all right? Any problems I missed, or can I tell this person to get his facts straight before posting?


Tophe74
Posts: 245
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:21 pm
Location: Haute Savoie/France

Re: Help - charging speed.

Post by Tophe74 » Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:59 pm

No it's correct and anyway, at least here in France, their are few 3 phases at home and most ppl have 8 to 14 A so almost impossible to charge more than 7k.
The problem is for country's with 3 phases that can't even charge at 7kw because the I pace doesn't t support 3 phases.


Jelle v/d Meer
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Location: Tilburg / Netherlands

Re: Help - charging speed.

Post by Jelle v/d Meer » Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:01 pm

E.C. Pottinger wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:44 pm
Yes, I know I am posting as a Tesla fan but I think someone in another forum is trying to dish the I-Pace unfairly.

The claim is you can not at home fully recharge the I-Pace over-night. That does not seem right, at 240 VAC and 30 Amps or 7 KW, and with a 90 kWh battery that means 12 hours to fully charge. And most times you do not start from empty anyway.

Have I got it all right? Any problems I missed, or can I tell this person to get his facts straight before posting?
Well it all depends on the charger you are able to install at home. The I-pace is designed more for single phase homes then for triple phase (400v) homes. Continental Europe is much further with switching to triple phase while UK barely has triple phase.

So in NL the most common connections are 1x 35A or 3x 25A - anything bigger and you easily pay €50 per month extra in connection charges.

With 3x 25A connection it is impossible to charge the I-pace at 32A meaning you pretty much stuck to charge at 16A which is 3.7kW per hour so easily more than 24hrs charging if you go from near 0% battery to 100%.

With 1x 35A connection it is also difficult to charge at 32A because all fuses will blow when you switch on a television or dishwasher. You can increase to 40A without extra charge, install a 32A charger with load balancing that only gives available power to charger depending on home electricity usage. This solution is more expensive and tends to come with monthly subscription fees.

As a Tesla fan you know that Tesla allows for triple phase charging so at 400v. In NL this is very easy because with 3x 25A connection you can install a 3x 16A charger allowing for 11kW per hour charging which would fill the I-pace battery in 8-9hrs instead of 12-13hrs with 1x 32A. Sadly and very unfortunately Jaguar decided to not provide the 3 phase charging option.
I-pace S I Ceasium Blue I Ordered 25-04 I Production 8th October I Delivery +/- wk44


MiCoHi
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Location: Warrington/UK

Re: Help - charging speed.

Post by MiCoHi » Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:29 pm

Although I plan on doing the vast majority of charging at home (Rolec wallpod already installed for my e-tron), out of interest, what public charging will i-Pace be able to use?

50kW CCS is obviously good, but what about 43kW type-2 charging? And how about 11kW type-2, a lot of which are free in the UK?
3 year owning A3 e-tron, i-Pace First Edition (Corris) on order


Snoerd
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Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:41 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: Help - charging speed.

Post by Snoerd » Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:10 pm

MiCoHi wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:29 pm
what public charging will i-Pace be able to use?

50kW CCS is obviously good, but what about 43kW type-2 charging? And how about 11kW type-2, a lot of which are free in the UK?
on AC, there is a cap on 7kW. So no matter if you use 43kW, you will get 7kW max. For the 11kW it is even trickier. The 11kW usually is 3x16Amp and as i-pace can only use 1 phase, you will charge only with 3,7kW on most 11kW chargers.
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Jelle v/d Meer
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Location: Tilburg / Netherlands

Re: Help - charging speed.

Post by Jelle v/d Meer » Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:33 pm

Indeed - the far majority of public chargers are AC chargers and the majority of those at least in NL are 11kW chargers based on 3phase.

So you should see it that there are AC chargers whereby I-pace does 7.4kW maximum - impossible to charge faster. Separately there are the DC chargers that tend to start at 50kW and go up to 350kW whereby at the moment the charging speed of the I-pace is maxed at 100kW.

Be aware that charging with a 100kW charger doesn't mean it charges the battery continuously at 100kW:
* If on the same charger units there are multiple cables the power is split between the cars charging
* Depending on software of I-pace and Charger the maximum speed might not be achieved
* The charging speed will start to drop from about 70%-80% full, when the battery gets full it is more difficult to charge power to it so charging speed slows down.

So for the I-pace the only real interesting chargers to use are the DC chargers when on the road, AC chargers are only pratical if you are there for longer like at home, work, airport or shopping centre.
I-pace S I Ceasium Blue I Ordered 25-04 I Production 8th October I Delivery +/- wk44


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lvrmsc
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Re: Help - charging speed.

Post by lvrmsc » Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:35 pm

E.C. Pottinger wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:44 pm
Yes, I know I am posting as a Tesla fan but I think someone in another forum is trying to dish the I-Pace unfairly.

The claim is you can not at home fully recharge the I-Pace over-night. That does not seem right, at 240 VAC and 30 Amps or 7 KW, and with a 90 kWh battery that means 12 hours to fully charge. And most times you do not start from empty anyway.

Have I got it all right? Any problems I missed, or can I tell this person to get his facts straight before posting?
To tell again (others answered), the I-Pace has an onboard charger consuming one phase, 230V 32A, or 7.36 kVA. There is always a +-10% tolerance on voltage on such devices, so anywhere between ~210V to ~250V as input will do. It generally is 230 to 240 in most European countries, 220V has been nearly abandoned everywhere.

If you have a charge-point able to deliver tri-phase ~230V to the car, there is **nothing** wrong with that, but the I-Pace will use only one of the phases and will be limited to whatever current that single phase can provide, which **may** not be as high as 32A, depending on the home input from the network and the charger capabilities. So indeed in that triphase-as-input setup, some people might not be able to charge as quick, if they do not have 32A possible on any of the three phases.

A triphase 230V 32A circuit is about 1.73205 x 230 x 32 = 12.75 kVA, which is a much larger setup than a one phase 230V 32A = 7.36 kVA. As homes with triphase input can distribute the whole charge of the home over the 3 phases (pretty much as if they had 3 distinct one phase inputs from the network), they generally don't need as much intensity available on each phase. It would be very common, in Belgium for instance to have either a single phase 230V x 40A input (9.2 kVA) or a triphase 230V x 25A input (9.96 kVA), which is about the same amount of power available, but the triphase version is limited to 25A per phase instead of 40A. So in that configuration there is NO room for the 32A that the I-Pace could use.

People in that situation could upgrade their triphase input from the network (at a cost) to get at least 35A per phase. That should allow to redistribute the home circuits over 2 of the 3 phases, and keep one phase reserved for the I-Pace charger. Or they could opt in to get their setup down to a single phase input from the network, but with a significantly higher max intensity (probably at least 50A) in order to have room for the 32A to the I-Pace along with a proper margin for the home needs. In case of electric machines, pumps, big oven and the like, the triphase is still a better choice though.

My very old input to my home is tri 230V x 40A, so that redistribution trick to leave one phase available wholly to the I-Pace charger (and maybe the garage lights) would suffice. Though doing so, I need substantial work to be done on my electric system, which then requires re-certification, and so implies yet more work to do to comply to recent regulations. Which means in the end I get the input upped at the same time (need replacing the counter), to tri 230V x 50A, so I have more room for evolution and the phase with I-Pace charger can also get some other lighter circuits on it.
HSE Corris Grey | On order since early July 2018, Belgium. | For now (mid-Sep), said to be delivered by ~ mid-Nov.
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MiCoHi
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:28 pm
Location: Warrington/UK

Re: Help - charging speed.

Post by MiCoHi » Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:49 pm

Ahh, thanks for clearing that up for me.

One point of possible interest, having just spoken to my dealer today, a recent software update has enabled 150kW DC charging apparently!
3 year owning A3 e-tron, i-Pace First Edition (Corris) on order


ChrisMc
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Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:51 pm
Location: North West (Eng)

Re: Help - charging speed.

Post by ChrisMc » Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:52 pm

E.C. Pottinger wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 1:44 pm
Yes, I know I am posting as a Tesla fan but I think someone in another forum is trying to dish the I-Pace unfairly.

The claim is you can not at home fully recharge the I-Pace over-night. That does not seem right, at 240 VAC and 30 Amps or 7 KW, and with a 90 kWh battery that means 12 hours to fully charge. And most times you do not start from empty anyway.

Have I got it all right? Any problems I missed, or can I tell this person to get his facts straight before posting?
If it's where I think it is you are posting, I wouldn't bother trying to educate them too much, I have tried in the last few months, I also told them how many times would you charge from zero to full from home, not often, if ever! but you might consider that you will start with a full fuel tank as it were every morning, whereby you don't or rarely do so when you have an ICE, unless you have a fuel pump on your drive :D

I also went into a lot more detail about EV's and the benefits and so on, but trying to educate those that are dead against EV's is just a waste of your time. they will either get it or they won't, or probably they don't want to get it, some treat ICE's like God and don't want anyone questioning their beliefs :roll: and aren't willing to consider alternatives, unfortunately :shock:


E.C. Pottinger
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:34 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Help - charging speed. Thank you.

Post by E.C. Pottinger » Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:35 am

Hello,
Thank you for all the answers. The different options are interesting to consider, but in particular I think this is a clear case of someone thinking what is the standard in one place is the standard everywhere. I keep running into this in all sort of things, why people think their little corner of the world is the same around the entire world is beyond me.

To ChrisMc, I am talking about a EV forum, but some people are willing to blind themselves to alternatives to try and prove their choice is the best and only one. I plan to correct them when I get a chance.

Personally, I am torn between Tesla and Bollinger, and since I am waiting till one of my two vehicles breaks down (that should be soon) who knows what may come onto the market by then? I am trying to be open to everybody.


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