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Sudden Unintended Acceleration

73K views 434 replies 72 participants last post by  Pacey  
#1 ·
I was picking my son up this morning to go shopping. He lives down a country lane in the village. I was driving slowly as I had passed a horse with rider and his house was just on the right. I pulled over to the right to pull up outside his house. I put my foot on the brake lightly as I was already slowing down when the car suddenly went off like a rocket. It ploughed into a Porsche in front of me that went into a VW that pushed a lamp post over then I swerved across the road into a wall and ended up on top of the wall on a fence. Thank God there was nobody walking past or sat in the cars. The air bags activated and I opened my door and got out uninjured.

What on earth happened? Im 62 years old and have been driving safely since I was 17 and own 2 companies with numerous vehicles. No way would I have put my foot on the accelerator by mistake. The police said I may have caught my foot on the accelerator as well as the brake and the car just went off like a rocket he has had previous experience of this with electric cars and personally doesn't like them as he feels they are take off to quickly.

Dash cam footage from a car parked behind where I was pulling in the police man said showed me pulling in slowly and my brake lights come on then go off and come back on again. Surely this means that I did put my brakes on then when the car accelerated I took them immediately off then slammed them on again but the car kept accelerating anyway and was unstoppable until it crashed.

So what really happened, this was all was over in a couple of minutes resulting in my iPace, Porsche being right offs (very unhappy neighbour) VW damaged, lamp post knocked right over and fence and part of wall destroyed.

Couple of months earlier the iPace had gone back to the manufacturers for a month as there was a problem with the battery charger, and the car lost total power, not before all the windows opened for some reason!

If anybody has had similar problems I would really like to know to compare, this had really unnerved me and I seriously thinking of going back to a diesel car.

Thanking you in advance
Julie
 
#2 ·
Same thing happened to me twice, the second time with expensive damages to vehicle and scenery but fortunately not other vehicles or people. I put it down to driver error as I probably caught the throttle and the brake, any such mistake is magnified by EV instant torque as illustrated online by a few Taycan’s taking off through dealership windows. I’m now super cautious in car parks, it is definitely a downside.
 
#222 ·
Hi there, I hope you're well. My name is Holly and I am a journalist for BBC Radio 4's investigative current affairs programme File on 4. I'm really sorry that this happened to you. I am looking into electric car faults and was wondering if you'd be happy to chat with me about your experience, please? My email is holly.clemens@bbc.co.uk. I hope to hear from you. Many thanks, Holly
 
#4 ·
I’ve caught the accelerator by mistake thankfully nothing in front so no damage, not a nice Christmas incident, hope your no claims is protected.
 
#5 ·
Scary. Glad you are ok after that. Shame there is no recording of data, a la aircraft blackbox style. Given the safety processes that are applied to throttle-by-wire, it is very unlikely a software issue. Could be but just very unlikely. I have personally noticed that the throttle can be inadvertently pressed when applying the brake but then, I do have big feet.
 
#6 ·
I was picking my son up this morning to go shopping. He lives down a country lane in the village. I was driving slowly as I had passed a horse with rider and his house was just on the right. I pulled over to the right to pull up outside his house. I put my foot on the brake lightly as I was already slowing down when the car suddenly went off like a rocket. It ploughed into a Porsche in front of me that went into a VW that pushed a lamp post over then I swerved across the road into a wall and ended up on top of the wall on a fence. Thank God there was nobody walking past or sat in the cars. The air bags activated and I opened my door and got out uninjured.

What on earth happened? Im 62 years old and have been driving safely since I was 17 and own 2 companies with numerous vehicles. No way would I have put my foot on the accelerator by mistake. The police said I may have caught my foot on the accelerator as well as the brake and the car just went off like a rocket he has had previous experience of this with electric cars and personally doesn't like them as he feels they are take off to quickly.

Dash cam footage from a car parked behind where I was pulling in the police man said showed me pulling in slowly and my brake lights come on then go off and come back on again. Surely this means that I did put my brakes on then when the car accelerated I took them immediately off then slammed them on again but the car kept accelerating anyway and was unstoppable until it crashed.

So what really happened, this was all was over in a couple of minutes resulting in my iPace, Porsche being right offs (very unhappy neighbour) VW damaged, lamp post knocked right over and fence and part of wall destroyed.

Couple of months earlier the iPace had gone back to the manufacturers for a month as there was a problem with the battery charger, and the car lost total power, not before all the windows opened for some reason!

If anybody has had similar problems I would really like to know to compare, this had really unnerved me and I seriously thinking of going back to a diesel car.

Thanking you in advance
Julie
Sorry to learn of that disaster. I have on more than one occasion hit the side of the accelerator pedal from the edge of my right foot when pressing the brake pedal, resulting in a heart stopping surge until I realised my mistake. The pedals are a bit close together for my big feet. I even find that when my left foot is on the rest pad that I am slightly pushing the edge of the brake pedal angled lever.
 
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#10 ·
I was picking my son up this morning to go shopping. He lives down a country lane in the village. I was driving slowly as I had passed a horse with rider and his house was just on the right. I pulled over to the right to pull up outside his house. I put my foot on the brake lightly as I was already slowing down when the car suddenly went off like a rocket. It ploughed into a Porsche in front of me that went into a VW that pushed a lamp post over then I swerved across the road into a wall and ended up on top of the wall on a fence. Thank God there was nobody walking past or sat in the cars. The air bags activated and I opened my door and got out uninjured.

What on earth happened? Im 62 years old and have been driving safely since I was 17 and own 2 companies with numerous vehicles. No way would I have put my foot on the accelerator by mistake. The police said I may have caught my foot on the accelerator as well as the brake and the car just went off like a rocket he has had previous experience of this with electric cars and personally doesn't like them as he feels they are take off to quickly.

Dash cam footage from a car parked behind where I was pulling in the police man said showed me pulling in slowly and my brake lights come on then go off and come back on again. Surely this means that I did put my brakes on then when the car accelerated I took them immediately off then slammed them on again but the car kept accelerating anyway and was unstoppable until it crashed.

So what really happened, this was all was over in a couple of minutes resulting in my iPace, Porsche being right offs (very unhappy neighbour) VW damaged, lamp post knocked right over and fence and part of wall destroyed.

Couple of months earlier the iPace had gone back to the manufacturers for a month as there was a problem with the battery charger, and the car lost total power, not before all the windows opened for some reason!

If anybody has had similar problems I would really like to know to compare, this had really unnerved me and I seriously thinking of going back to a diesel car.

Thanking you in advance
Julie
Sorry to read this, it must have been very alarming.
My guess is that your right foot was inadvertantly pressing both the brake and accelerator. As you increased brake pressure to try and slow the car, you also increased the throttle . . . .
Sorry to read this, it must have been very alarming.
My guess is that your right foot was inadvertantly pressing both the brake and accelerator. As you increased brake pressure to try and slow the car, you also increased the throttle . . . .
 
#11 ·
Merry Christmas everybody. After a sleepless night watching Sudden Accleration car accident compilations on YouTube (which incidentally is full of this stuff) I am horrified at what I've seen. I thought it interesting seeing that on certain Teslas if you put your foot on both pedals the brake pedal overrides the accelerator!! Wonder if this is the case with the iPace, need to speak to the service manager at my dealership, suppose it will be Wednesday now when they open again after Christmas. If you look at these clips on YouTube you will see that the vehicles (not all EV) turn into a monster both going forward and in reverse. I was pulling into a space on the side on the road in front of my sons house pressing gently on the brake - even if I was pressing the accelerator by mistake it wouldn't have gone off like a rocket I wasn't pressing that hard I was only slowing down from 15/120 mph. I really am struggling to get my head round it. I need to hassle somebody with an iPace on the supermarket car park and have a look at their foot pedals to see how close they are to each other. Please have a look at the YouTube clips I would be really interested in your view and of course like to hear from somebody else who has experienced this.
 
#125 ·
Merry Christmas everybody. After a sleepless night watching Sudden Accleration car accident compilations on YouTube (which incidentally is full of this stuff) I am horrified at what I've seen. I thought it interesting seeing that on certain Teslas if you put your foot on both pedals the brake pedal overrides the accelerator!! Wonder if this is the case with the iPace, need to speak to the service manager at my dealership, suppose it will be Wednesday now when they open again after Christmas. If you look at these clips on YouTube you will see that the vehicles (not all EV) turn into a monster both going forward and in reverse. I was pulling into a space on the side on the road in front of my sons house pressing gently on the brake - even if I was pressing the accelerator by mistake it wouldn't have gone off like a rocket I wasn't pressing that hard I was only slowing down from 15/120 mph. I really am struggling to get my head round it. I need to hassle somebody with an iPace on the supermarket car park and have a look at their foot pedals to see how close they are to each other. Please have a look at the YouTube clips I would be really interested in your view and of course like to hear from somebody else who has experienced this.
Hi Julie, I came across this post and I know exactly how you felt. I got into the most bizarre accident today and have been reading about this all morning trying to understand what happened. I drive a Porsche Macan 2018 and as I was in a parking in an empty lot and it SUDDENLY accelerated out of nowhere (like you said it went off like a rocket) - it went insane. I wasn't able to stop it- it ended up stopping on a tree. The damage to the front and the sides of the car is huge and I have no clue if they're going to be able to fix that. The towing people also caused more damage getting the car out because it was stuck between a tree and fire hydrant and they obviously can't move either. I am completely mind boggled I did not expect this from Porsche. If there were people around this would be a disaster; I don't even want to think about that. If anyone has had similar problems please reply. I feel like some clarity would help as to what/why that happened but it is NOT OK.
 
#16 ·
This is a valid point at this time of year, when people are more likely to wear boots which reduce pedal feel and can make it easier to catch the wrong pedal.
 
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#18 ·
The brake did not override throttle on my 2019.

I have size 12’s and as some point out, after walking the dogs with waterproof walking shoe I did hit both pedals.

the accelerator clean pulls through the foot brake and of course once you start moving when your mind thinks you are already on the brake you push harder! Thankfully I was in the middle of nowhere.

sorry to hear of your collision Julie, no one is hurt thankfully. All else is replaceable.

I think a software patch could easily cancel throttle if the brake were depressed but there are plenty who heel and toe or left foot brake so it would be a shame to do it. Perhaps make it a switchable feature in the dash settings.
 
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#19 ·
Sorry to hear about your accident. Good that no people were hurt including yourself, although it is incredibly painful when an accident happens.

I do feel that the pedals on the iPace could be better spaced. The brake pedal is offset to the left for me. I feel the accelerator pedal should be more towards the right and the brake pedal more in the middle of the footwell. I hope JLR takes notice and changes the design to decrease the chance of both pedal pressed simultaneously.

However, I also feel that there is increased chance of human error in EVs. I have seen videos of a Porsche Taycan speeding up a uphill drive and fall over the edge of an elevated dive when someone was supposed to be parking in their front drive.

A similar thing happened to me once, when I hit the accelerator pedal instead of the brake pedal in my IPace. Luckily it happened in my front drive, I was able to quickly stop the car successfully without any accident. I was taken aback as to why I hit the accelerator instead of the brake pedal and had to analyse my driving to find the reason for this. And my conclusion was the following.

I was used to driving a ICE car until I got my IPace. I noticed the change in driving style with an EV especially with high regen and the one pedal driving. I was enjoying this new experience of EV driving... until this incident happened

With high regen, the braking procedure is just lifting off the pedal and the car decelerates to a stop. Whereas the standard procedure to stop an ICE car is to come off the accelerator and go straight to push down the brake pedal. I, like most other drivers have been driving ICE cars for decades. What is registered in the subconscious is to push the pedal to stop. My suspicion is that the human brain goes back to the the old learned procedure of pushing down the pedal, albeit without moving the leg to hit the brake pedal as it is in the process of learning to do one pedal driving. This is what I suspect had happened to me. I was lucky that I did not run in to an accident.

Therefore, after that incident, I changed my regen to low and left it at that ever since. The driving characteristics are now very similar to a ICE car and I never had that happen to me ever since (6 months now). I also find that when I occasionally drive my wife's car, I don't need to adapt my driving style to suit ICE cars.

I also think that when it comes to emergency stopping, there is no room to think and reflexes kick in. This could be a situation where the human brain may get a bit confused and between one pedal driving and emergency braking and may accidentally push the accelerator pedal. With so much power and torque on tap the consequences could be disastrous!

These are just my views about what had happened to me and what could happen to others too. Only a blackbox could find out exactly what has happened in these cases. I hope the motor industry and human factors experts look in to this and put in safety systems in to cars to avoid accidents.

Wishing everyone safe motoring!
 
#22 ·
So interesting to read this discussion. My wife was driving our I-pace last month and had an almost identical incident that resulting in the car being written off after being driven into the house opposite - again no one harmed thank goodness, but she would love to understand exactly what happened.

There is a black box in the car (JLR call it an Event Data Recorder) that stores all the critical information (speed, brake pedal and accelerator pedal position, steering etc) but it's remarkably hard to access. I spoke to a company called TRL who specialise in accident forensics and they confirmed that although the EDR exists - only JLR can access it as it requires a bespoke bit of kit (their standard Bosch interface can't read the Jag's data). There is no obvious way to even ask JLR to help out - we spoke to the dealer who had no clue, and TRL couldn't provide a contact either.

So annoying - the answer (almost certainly pressing the accelerator by mistake) is sitting on a bit of kit in a car park in Newbury waiting to be scrapped - and we can't get hold of it.




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#26 ·
So interesting to read this discussion. My wife was driving our I-pace last month and had an almost identical incident that resulting in the car being written off after being driven into the house opposite - again no one harmed thank goodness, but she would love to understand exactly what happened.

There is a black box in the car (JLR call it an Event Data Recorder) that stores all the critical information (speed, brake pedal and accelerator pedal position, steering etc) but it's remarkably hard to access. I spoke to a company called TRL who specialise in accident forensics and they confirmed that although the EDR exists - only JLR can access it as it requires a bespoke bit of kit (their standard Bosch interface can't read the Jag's data). There is no obvious way to even ask JLR to help out - we spoke to the dealer who had no clue, and TRL couldn't provide a contact either.

So annoying - the answer (almost certainly pressing the accelerator by mistake) is sitting on a bit of kit in a car park in Newbury waiting to be scrapped - and we can't get hold of it.




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OH WOW so sorry about your accident but I am reassured seeing this. Watching the video clip of the Porsche about shows how they shoot off out of control. Unfortunately I ran into my sons neighbours classic Porsche and wrote it off. I did NOT PRESS THE ACELERATOR. My iPace is currently on the way to JLR Preston for investigation and Aviva are also sending a representative but I am not convinced anything will come of it. Tell you what I’m not in a hurray to get another electric car.
 
#34 ·
Another accident, it is very very disturbing indeed.

I feel that there are several features in the IPace which needs improvement:

I notice that the following are features which really increases the risk of human error in the IPace.

1. The lack of a regular gear changer lever - I am not a big fan of the push button gear selector. In my opinion, the push button gear selector has a lot of flaws
a. The gear selector does not engage as intended all the time. Sometimes I push the D button, the D does not engage. May be I did not push this push button hard enough. However there is no haptic/audible feedback to indicate that the gear has engaged. I have to look down at the button itself of the instrument cluster to confirm it has engaged and that would mean taking the eyes off the road.
b. Engaging reverse gear, the audible gong is too weak inside the car to confirm the that reverse has selected. And there is no haptic feedback for this either. With a conventional gear lever, the act of pushing the gear lever in the correct direction confirms the gear change in the human brain without the need to visual check. I have noticed that many other JLR cars now have a physical gear lever and it is time JLR puts similar levers in the IPace too. For our cars without the gear lever, I would like an audible beep confirming a gear selection, and different tone for forward, reverse and neutral.
c. In the Ipace the transmission can be changed from D to R and vice versa without pushing the brake pedal. I believe this is dangerous! The wrong direction could be engaged without the driver realising this unless they look down at the gear selector. This wrong gear selection; combined with the huge torque of the EV motors, and a small tap on the accelerator pedal, the consequences could be disastrous.

2. High regen: This issue, I think the IPace shares with all other EVs which support high regen.
Almost all of us EV drivers would have learned driving in ICE cars. The learned behaviour for a good numbers of years or even decades is to push the brake pedal to stop the car.
With high regen, one learns to do one pedal driving. In most EVs with high regen, drivers get to a habit of not having to use the brake pedal much.
However, when a emergency braking situation presents, I suspect the human brain gets a bit confused. With the 'recently' learned one pedal driving, one is used to the right foot only on the accelerator pedal. In an emergency braking situation ( sometimes even at other times), the reflex action of pushing the brake pedal down kicks in... and I believe that this leads to the accelerator pedal pushed down firmly. This combined with the enormous torque EVs can generate, one can imagine can lead to disastrous consequences.

I used to drive on high regen for a little while when I got my IPace and I loved that experience of one pedal driving. However, I accidentally pushed the accelerator pedal once instead of the brake when I was manoeuvring my car in my drive. Thankfully I didn't loose complete control and could stop the car before I hit anything. I thought a lot about this and tried to analyse what happened. )I am a medical doctor with an interest in Human factors in causation of error). My suspicion is that the change in the learned behaviour with the difference in driving style of EVs on a background of ICE driving behaviour is perhaps leading to these events.

I have my IPace on low regen now and low regen mimicks ICE driving closely on the IPace. I think this also helps when I on occasions drive my wife's ICE car.

It would be of immense help if Jag and other EV manufacturers did look at the 'black box' in their cars and analyse the data and reveal the investigation reports the public so that we can all learn from these events to decrease the chance of accidents in future. And more importantly, EV manufacturers should design systems to decrease the chance of human error leading to accidents.
 
#45 ·
Another accident, it is very very disturbing indeed.

I feel that there are several features in the IPace which needs improvement:
I am afraid that I would disagree (politely) with GSIpace.
I have been driving since 1964 with only one accident when I was 17 1/2.
I do not have any issue with the 'D' and 'R' buttons, you can feel as the buttons depress and a little light comes on to tell you that you have selected it.

I like High Regeneration. It took me a couple of miles to get used to it, previously I had an Outlander PHEV with the flappy paddles and now wonder why they bothered with them. Some seem to have an issue that they believe the regen action is binary, fully on or fully off, I have noticed this on 5th Gear recharge programme where they do not seem able to adjust the 'go' pedal or note that the it goes from maximum acceleration at fully on to maximum regeneration when fully off. The acceleration is not binary and the actual brake pedal is not binary either. Ease off the throttle until you have the maximum braking that you desire and a little bit of planning ahead works wonderfully.
In towns, urban and rural areas I use high regen though I am inclined to use low regen on Motorways particularly when using Cruise Control and Steer Assist
 
#35 ·
Be prepared for the one pedal driving fans to come and tell you how wrong you are and that you just need to get good.

I personally do not like one pedal driving and have absolutely zero issues using the actual brake pedal for actual braking. I laugh at people who try to claim that "one pedal driving is so easier", yeah cus moving my foot a few inches to the left is such a chore. :)
 
#48 · (Edited)
I really enjoyed using the high regen and one pedal driving when I started using my IPace. However, the reports of these accidents in EVs (not in ICE cars) and a personal experience on mine, makes me think that this increases the risk of human error.

There may be an argument that one should pay attention to the little lights to confirm that one is in the right gear. However, we are all human and we are prone to error. One of characteristics of good design is its ability to prevent human error, and this is where I feel there is need for improvement.

Correction: I rephrase... it is the ability to decrease human error, rather than prevent human error!
 
#36 ·
I would also like to add that I believe these cases of sudden acceleration in EVs with one pedal driving modes, are 100% purely driver error. They are not the fault of the car, or where the gear button is. Automatic cars have for years used rotary dials or buttons for selecting gears. The difference is they still 100% relied on people using a brake pedal to brake.

The reality is that some (not all) individuals get so used to one pedal driving so much, that they lose their muscle memory for "braking". Especially in an emergency when many people enter panic mode and have to rely on muscle memory.

How many people transitioned from auto to manual gears and vice versa and had those rare or minor lapses where they "forgot" for a split second?
 
#37 ·
Very much agree with GSIpace on the design of the gear shifter in the I-pace. One at least one occasion I thought I'd changed gear and hadn't - thankfully was able to stop the car quickly with no further issues, but the level of feedback is not good with the current design (a louder alert to confirm, or some form of haptic feedback (vibration) would be very useful to confirm gear engaged). In the incident above, my wife thought she had engaged reverse, but the car started moving forward - and then very likely she mistakenly pressed the accelerator instead of the brake.

Personally I think a physical stick / stalk / rotary dial would be a better design

We are still waiting for JLR to confirm access to the EDR - but like ICDP_EV I think that driver error is the likely cause. Whether or not one pedal driving was also a contributing factor I don't know - certainly it's a different style of driving but I think relatively easy to adapt to...although in an emergency situation old habits will die hard.

ICDP_EV - you say that you believe these incidents are driver error. I agree that that is almost certainly the primary cause, but (as GSIpace says) it's also down to the designers of these vehicles to reduce the chances of driver error occurring (or create safeguards if it does) - and I do think that there are design issues with the I-pace (and maybe EVs more generally) that create an unforgiving environment for drivers in certain circumstance.
 
#39 ·
I do agree that some designs are very poor in their layout. Though I would defy anyone who has been driving for years to deny that they haven't selected the wrong gear on occasion. This is not exclusive to ICE cars or EVs and does not matter if the gear select are manual, button, dials or automatics. In fact I would be so bold as to say, show me someone who says they have never selected the wrong gear while driving and I will show you a liar. I believe (purely anecdotal) that it is worse in EVs because of the more rapid response and increased torgue. It is potentially exacerbated even more by the fact people lose the normal brake pedal muscle memory.

So when it does happen it tends to be far more dramatic in an EV. Espcially one with the power of an I-Pace.