[marts4]

Following updated guidance to JLR today. I’m to understand if you get the traction batter error, and are limited to 72% charge capacity. The guidance is now deemed this is sufficient for the customer to continue using the vehicle, whilst awaiting any parts on order.

 

[Topdown]

So these ‘cells’ that are out of tolerance have been that way since manufacture rather than deteriorating over the life of the car? If not when you get a couple of cell modules replaced you could be back again for some more in a few months time.

 

[Slartibartfast]

So these ‘cells’ that are out of tolerance have been that way since manufacture rather than deteriorating over the life of the car? If not when you get a couple of cell modules replaced you could be back again for some more in a few months time.

The problem was a manufacturing defect (actually a couple of defects I believe) at LG Energy (part of LG Chem), the Korean cell manufacturer. It affected several vehicle makes, including Hyundai and GM. LG have fixed the manufacturing process, apparently, so cells made since the problems were discovered should be OK. The issue is that it can take time for these manufacturing defects to become apparent, so cells may test OK when new, but then degrade prematurely.

These manufacturing defects only affected a relatively small proportion of LG Chem's production, so most of the cells they produced during this time were fine. The major concern is that if faulty cells are not replaced then the battery pack has a slightly greater risk of catching fire. It was vehicle fires that first flagged up that LG Chem has a problem with battery quality. It seems the IPace hasn't been impacted anywhere near as severely as cars like the Bolt and the Kona, both of which have had a few serious fires:

Battery Experts Provide Explanations for Chevy Bolt Fires

General Motors has learned some hard lessons in the raft of Bolt fires, even as a measure of disagreement still exists over where the fault lies.

www.autoweek.com

Hyundai recalls Kona EVs over battery fire risk

Information for North American customers is coming soon.

www.theverge.com

 

[endoman]

Following updated guidance to JLR today. I’m to understand if you get the traction batter error, and are limited to 72% charge capacity. The guidance is now deemed this is sufficient for the customer to continue using the vehicle, whilst awaiting any parts on order.

Which is fine if you had wanted a car with 150 mile range. If you regularly need the range you bought then it's a poor response from Jag.

 

[Aurora Blue]

I have a September 2018 first edition and it went in for the H441 battery charging recall a few weeks ago and now I have a traction battery fault and one of the cells is faulty. Thing is the service person did not even know the details of the recall or why it was done and had never seen an Ipace with the traction battery fault. Nor did they know of the LG battery problem that other manufacturers are experiencing. So finger on the pulse there from service staff. Spooky thing was while I was there another Ipace came in with the exact same fault so the service person had not seen any till mine, but then had had two within an hour of each other.

Apparently cell 24 is duff and needs to be replaced, but there is no stock of new cells, no lead time so at the moment I have a car that is currently limited to 70% which for me gives a range of 165 miles, but in reality that is only about 140 actually usable. This is a shame as my commute three times a week is 170 to 180 miles so now I have to charge publicly while out every time I do my commute. Jaguar seem to think this is perfectly OK as the car drives but for me is is very inconvenient in both time waiting for it to charge (once a charge point becomes free that is) and additional costs. I bought this car knowing it will be OK for my commute, but now it is not doing that any more but it just seems to fall on deaf ears and it is not longer fit for purpose.

Am currently waiting for the dealer to raise a case with JLR and then I can start chasing them up. It had not seemed to have been done today so will have to wait till tomorrow now.

Best bit is as well is there is a note on the sales invoice saying the car is out of warranty so looking for a goodwill gesture. Yes the three year warranty is gone (i do have extended Jaguar warranty) but the battery has a manufacturers 8 year 100000 mile so is still covered anyway. The sales person could not explain why that note was on the paperwork.

Guess there could be more of these that may have faults but fingers crossed the stocks of cells will become available sooner rather than later.

Just a bit of a rant to be honest as my car is not really going to be practical while it has this fault and with no lead times it is just frustrating. Am hoping that once a case is raised I may be able to get some more info.

Morning Darrinf

Log everything... dates, times, names. Be meticulous. Even with calls and who you spoke to. Make a separate 'notes file' for you to return to, to remember what was said, by who and when.

I would start a 'complaint' with JLR customer relations as soon as possible. They will help 'to a point' but more importantly you've logged a case. They can also check and expedite what service centres have done. It removes the potential down the road for anyone to turn to you and say "well it can't have been that important or serious as you didn't let us know'.

Also dealerships can be very blazé and relaxed about logging a parts request. Also communication internally can be very poor. With no estimated repair time you have to pursue them weekly and get JLR CRC to agree to a weekly call back time. Keep all your receipts from 'in between CCS charging'. You should reasonably be able to claim these additional expenses back.

...video your vehicle in the parking spot at the service centre (especially the underside). These vehicles are taken for test drives and you don't want another headache proving that that dent wasn't there when you gave them your property.

Hope it gets resolved quickly for you.

 

[Catastrophic]

I posted this on another thread, but it is probably better here:

I have now experienced the same problem with my MY19 FE.

I contacted my local dealer yesterday (Reading, UK) and was told that, as my car is out of the 3 year warranty, it would cost me £220 for initial diagnosis. They were uninterested in providing any courtesy car, and initially would not offer me an appointment until early NOVEMBER! They eventually offered an appointment on the 28th September. The service agent seemed entirely uninformed about the issue, and disinterested in any information I have gleaned from this thread and the warranty on the battery. Has anyone else had such an unsympathetic response from their dealer or had more interest or insight by contacting JLR directly?

 

[endoman]

I posted this on another thread, but it is probably better here:

I have now experienced the same problem with my MY19 FE.

I contacted my local dealer yesterday (Reading, UK) and was told that, as my car is out of the 3 year warranty, it would cost me £220 for initial diagnosis. They were uninterested in providing any courtesy car, and initially would not offer me an appointment until early NOVEMBER! They eventually offered an appointment on the 28th September. The service agent seemed entirely uninformed about the issue, and disinterested in any information I have gleaned from this thread and the warranty on the battery. Has anyone else had such an unsympathetic response from their dealer or had more interest or insight by contacting JLR directly?

Hatfields Sheffield who did the update ( took 2 visits and a wasted 4 hours sitting there). It failed after about a month, Jag Assist came out told me to contact dealer. Did this on 25 August, Hatfields wouldn't see me as they are closing for good at end of September. Recommended a JLR service centre who have me booked in on 28 September for initial diagnostics. Can't see sooner. Hatfields totally unhelpful. Jag assist arranged a hire car through enterprise ( c class bog standard 4 years old). Told me JLR car would be available later. Have rung threm 3 times re the different car , promised calls back, but they are never forthcoming. I haven't time to be calling all day and waiting on hold etc. Car is in my garage as partial charging is no good to me. Working out what to do next..... ~Don't know who to contact at JLR or re the finance I am paying for a car I can't use as intended.

 

[Aurora Blue]

I posted this on another thread, but it is probably better here:

I have now experienced the same problem with my MY19 FE.

I contacted my local dealer yesterday (Reading, UK) and was told that, as my car is out of the 3 year warranty, it would cost me £220 for initial diagnosis. They were uninterested in providing any courtesy car, and initially would not offer me an appointment until early NOVEMBER! They eventually offered an appointment on the 28th September. The service agent seemed entirely uninformed about the issue, and disinterested in any information I have gleaned from this thread and the warranty on the battery. Has anyone else had such an unsympathetic response from their dealer or had more interest or insight by contacting JLR directly?

Good afternoon Catastrosphic
The only group of people I would trust is the AA (Jaguar Assistance).

 

[electric beagle]

The problem was a manufacturing defect (actually a couple of defects I believe) at LG Energy (part of LG Chem), the Korean cell manufacturer. It affected several vehicle makes, including Hyundai and GM. LG have fixed the manufacturing process, apparently, so cells made since the problems were discovered should be OK. The issue is that it can take time for these manufacturing defects to become apparent, so cells may test OK when new, but then degrade prematurely.

These manufacturing defects only affected a relatively small proportion of LG Chem's production, so most of the cells they produced during this time were fine. The major concern is that if faulty cells are not replaced then the battery pack has a slightly greater risk of catching fire. It was vehicle fires that first flagged up that LG Chem has a problem with battery quality. It seems the IPace hasn't been impacted anywhere near as severely as cars like the Bolt and the Kona, both of which have had a few serious fires:

Battery Experts Provide Explanations for Chevy Bolt Fires

General Motors has learned some hard lessons in the raft of Bolt fires, even as a measure of disagreement still exists over where the fault lies.

www.autoweek.com

Hyundai recalls Kona EVs over battery fire risk

Information for North American customers is coming soon.

www.theverge.com

Do we know what timeframe had the impacted components? I assume it's a between date X and Y type thing (albeit how those parts were consumed downstream may have different timescales).

 

[Ayepace]

All production from the startup through at least May of this year.

 

[electric beagle]

All production from the startup through at least May of this year.

Ouch!

 

[Catastrophic]

Hatfields Sheffield who did the update ( took 2 visits and a wasted 4 hours sitting there). It failed after about a month, Jag Assist came out told me to contact dealer. Did this on 25 August, Hatfields wouldn't see me as they are closing for good at end of September. Recommended a JLR service centre who have me booked in on 28 September for initial diagnostics. Can't see sooner. Hatfields totally unhelpful. Jag assist arranged a hire car through enterprise ( c class bog standard 4 years old). Told me JLR car would be available later. Have rung threm 3 times re the different car , promised calls back, but they are never forthcoming. I haven't time to be calling all day and waiting on hold etc. Car is in my garage as partial charging is no good to me. Working out what to do next..... ~Don't know who to contact at JLR or re the finance I am paying for a car I can't use as intended.

Thanks Beagle,
Unfortunately I haven’t got Jaguar Assist as I already had the AA covering the other cars in the family. I don’t expect the AA will be particularly interested in looking at the car for an issue which doesn’t affect its ability to get home, and Jaguar Assist won’t help as I am not covered by them. 🤯

Perhaps the dealer’s attitude will change if JLR do decide its a warranty-covered repair.

Does anyone know of a diagnostic tool available to the average punter that will report of the state of the battery cells?

 

[Slartibartfast]

All production from the startup through at least May of this year.

I'm not sure that LG were still producing defective cells as late as May 2023, as they had found the production faults some time in 2021 (around the time of the big Chevy Bolt recall). The IPace cells are made on the same production line as the cells for the Hyundai Kona and the Bolt, and both of those cars were subject to battery recalls in 2021/2022 (as were a few others I think).

A friend who bought a Kona in 2022 was very unhappy about his car being off the road for months whilst waiting for a replacement battery pack. IIRC, he eventually got his car back just before Christmas (and promptly got rid of it and vowed never to buy another Hyundai!).

 

[Topdown]

After H441 If you have the caution warning and the car will not charge above 72% all this work is battery warranty. So call Jag Assist and tell them you need the codes read and a solution planned to replace the modules or the full battey.

 

[Volkswarren]

Jag are now monitoring the car after performing a traction battery disconnect. Not sure what this will do.

 

[Topdown]

After 39 days since H441 I have ‘ok to drive with Caution Traction battery fault and full charge is now 72%. Fault code showing P148-00. Will need (module(s)). Getting booked in for a fix.

Interesting that the mileage that this DTC was logged was 78 and a global time of 7158279.0. Does that mean the fault has been there since day 1 and H441 has now reacted to it?

Any idea what Global time is?

 

[Catastrophic]

After H441 If you have the caution warning and the car will not charge above 72% all this work is battery warranty. So call Jag Assist and tell them you need the codes read and a solution planned to replace the modules or the full battey.

Thanks Topdown. I took you advice and phonedJag Assist. They said they could only send the AA and attempt a roadside repair! Obviously the agent I spoke to was unaware of the general issue. They recommended I talk to JLR Customer Care, which I did. The agent was disinterested and told me that the retailer was doing the right thing and that the initial diagnostic fee would not be covered by Jaguar in any circumstance, and if the retailer felt there was a warranty issue they would raise a case with JLR. I find the variation in the way this issue is being dealt with quite bizarre. It is though their network of service professionals are unaware of the problem and are making it up as they go along.

I guess I have no option but to take the car too the dealer and see what happens, but I am very sceptical that there will be an appropriate outcome that won’t cost me half what I paid for the car!

 

[Aurora Blue]

Thanks Topdown. I took you advice and phonedJag Assist. They said they could only send the AA and attempt a roadside repair! Obviously the agent I spoke to was unaware of the general issue. They recommended I talk to JLR Customer Care, which I did. The agent was disinterested and told me that the retailer was doing the right thing and that the initial diagnostic fee would not be covered by Jaguar in any circumstance, and if the retailer felt there was a warranty issue they would raise a case with JLR. I find the variation in the way this issue is being dealt with quite bizarre. It is though their network of service professionals are unaware of the problem and are making it up as they go along.

I guess I have no option but to take the car too the dealer and see what happens, but I am very sceptical that there will be an appropriate outcome that won’t cost me half what I paid for the car!

Good morning Catastrophic.

If it relates to H441 it should be repaired free of charge and the peripherals (diagnosis, loan/hire vehicle, fuel (petrol/diesel) costs) should be reimbursable.

As Hepburn pointed out it's the blind leading the blind at JLR customer Relations and Service centres. You may end up with a good case manager or a clueless one. I've spoken to one chap at JLR CRC who had heard of the TCU issues. An hour later the next agent had never heard of TCU issues.

In your shoes I would log everything in detail from the start of notification or awareness of the issue (which ever came first). Emails, Phone calls, names, dates, times etc and dealership interaction. If it's H441 related it shouldn't matter if you have a warranty or not... but... if you're intending on keeping the car... now it's going into a dealership/service centre is the time to have it pass a check and buy a fully extended warranty with Jag Assistance. This is because CarCarePlan need the car to be 'approved' before they will sell you the plan.

Hope it works out for you.

 

[Topdown]

The AA guy would read the codes, that’s who Jag assist use.

 

[marts4]

My H441 is being dealt with by a JLR dealer. No questions of anything not being covered under warranty have ever been mentioned. I’m aware they double checked with the analysts in Birmingham who instructed to replace the battery because of the significant cost, which they confirmed was indeed the case. That’s about as close as any second questioning got really. I’d get in sooner rather than later, as parts supplies are all on back-order. I’ve been in the loan disco for 4 weeks now.